Saintbertholdt

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Posts by Saintbertholdt

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  58

  I gave the elders some ammo to use

  by atacrossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was having dinner at olive garden with my cousin who was disfellowshipped for apostacy.

  a holier than thou pioneer couple saw us.

  if that was not enough i saw her take a picture of me with my cousin.

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  Saintbertholdt

  I think if you're cornered and you have to talk to an elder or elders the old Watchtower theocratic war strategy might be in order. The elders are not entitled to your private business and so spinning whatever story with even a grain of truth is in order:

  1. Use any family business that was discussed (oh aunt Peggy is ill) and blow it to proportions that warranted the 'mandatory' contact or...

  2. Say that your 'apostate' cousin was having thoughts about returning to the organization but wanted to discuss it with a close family member first and NOT any elders.

  3. You were having dinner on your cousin's request with the express purpose of discussing 'aunt Peggy' and/or his glorious return to the Watchtower. He didn't want to talk to any elders and would only confide in you but only in a social setting.

  4. If after some time if you are prodded again just say 'aunt Peg' recovered and/or your cousin suffered a relapse.

  5. If you are ever asked why you haven't been back to meetings you can say that you wanted to but after you we're photographed by the pioneer couple you now feel quite depressed and scarred. You're getting better and will return soon but you just need some time...
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  183

  JWs have more good points than bad

  by lsw1961 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

  2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

  this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi Isw1961,

  I'm glad to see you've responded.

  ... But when you allow it to take a monstrous form of blind enmity, spilling venom in all directions

  I find that the greatest venom has been reserved by the Watchtower towards everyone, and I mean everyone. Is it not the Watchtower organization who refers to apostates (anyone who disagrees with their interpretation of dogma) as "mentally diseased"? That is pretty venomous.

  I also think the worst criticism against the organization that can be leveled against it, is that it is a cult.

  The two main characteristics of cults are as follows:

  1. Controlling member access to information.

  2. Taking extreme measures against criticism and dissent.

  You well know that you cannot share with anyone within your religion the fact that you are attempting a public defense of your beliefs. Why? Because it would result in you being shunned.

  Would Jesus have kept his views quiet? Aren't what you are doing on this forum exactly what Jesus would have done? So why do your public arguments have to be kept a secret from your fellow witnesses?
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  183

  JWs have more good points than bad

  by lsw1961 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

  2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

  this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi lsw1961,

  Welcome to the forum. Its not often one gets to communicate with an active JW on this forum who still believes in the JW tdoctrine. Unlike the jwtalk forum you'll find you will not get the banhammer just because you have a dissenting opinion. Unfortunately you're going to get it from all sides from the members though, and I am no exception.

  Firstly I will concede that the JW religion has some good points. By the same token so do the Catholics, Baptists, Scientologist, Buddhists and the whole gambit of religion. The heart of your post goes to the question of why many ex-JW's criticize the organization so vehemently and you also state that ex-JW's are essentially unhappy and spiteful.

  However your thesis falls apart with your own answer:

  Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong.

  1. You admit that this is wrong. Most people congregate here for that very reason.

  2. You would not be able to express your opinion about shunning openly within your own congregation. If you did you would be booted out pretty quickly.

  But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy!

  1. You will not find a single reference to disfellowshipping in the Bible teach book nor the new version of the book.
  2. What do you say to born ins like myself who have experienced family pressure to conform from the earliest age?

  ---

  You also were careful to steer clear of the blood policy which has caused many people/children to die unnecessarily.

  As a last point I have to mention that if you shared the fact with your congregation elders that you were engaging in a defense of your beliefs on this website you would find yourself out of your congregation in no time at all. With the current policies I suspect even Jesus would be disfellowshipped for engaging the "enemy" if he was around today.

  Anyhooo, welcome again and I hope you're not just trolling and you stay on for some debate.
  

  Greetings
  
  

  
  
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  38

  Had any weird dreams recently?

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i'll go first.. i dreamt last night that i was still at uni, i said goodbye to one of my lecturers.

  then ulrika jonsson (former weather girl, shooting stars captain, and swedish nymphomaniac) gave me a lift home in her car - wtf?!

  she kept trying to change the cd whilst trying to drive (reaching on the floor, looking for a cd).

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  Saintbertholdt

  Your megalodon dream Kind of reminds me of the Harry Potter film where Ron Weasley meets ARAGOG the giant spider in the Forbidden Forrest. Ron kind of asks like u did "are you gonna eat me?" and Aragog gives her word she won't ' but cannot promise her many CHILDREN will turn down this easy bit of FRESH MEAT!!!

  You know perhaps that's where I got the whole thing from. Slowly seeping its way into my subconscious and coupling the narrative with another scary animal.
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  35

  A question

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody ever written bethel and just flat out asked for an accounting report on the society's finances?

  we all keep batting around speculation about the wtbs and money, and actual information seems non-existent.

  what would they do if somebody asked for a financial statement?

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  Saintbertholdt

  Since it is a corporation, is there not a way to find this information?

  Nope. Its an non-profit and a church. In the US those records are out of bounds.

  Hidden in footnotes , asset movement, etc.

  There are fragmentory bits and pieces... see citizenaudit.org
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  35

  A question

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody ever written bethel and just flat out asked for an accounting report on the society's finances?

  we all keep batting around speculation about the wtbs and money, and actual information seems non-existent.

  what would they do if somebody asked for a financial statement?

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  Saintbertholdt

  I suspect they'd round file the letter if somebody liked one of us sent it, what about if it came from a body of elders?

  They would get a stern talking to :)

  But if you want to:

  Mr. J. R. Brown

  Office of Public Information

  [email protected]

  I've wanted to ask Mr. Brown about the $40 million transferred into and out of the Caymens.

  Its a legitimate question I think.
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  104

  Farewell

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  "don't be dismayed by good-byes.

  a farewell is necessary before you can meet again.

  and meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends.

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  Saintbertholdt

  ...and where empathy is more scarce than it is inside a doomsday cult.
  

  I'm offended by this... moderators please censor this unfeeling post.

  Cmon ihunt, is that what this forum has to become? Whe're P's and Q's are constantly carefully checked and monitored? Currently there already exists a flag button with every post made. If something is really offensive you can report it.
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  25

  "The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in 1935, clayton woodworth (editor of the golden age - later the awake!

  magazine) devised a 'new' calendar that he proposed was far superior to the pagan calendars that have been used in human history.he wrote a three part series for the golden age (i am not sure if these were actually published) that laid out his justifications for how this new calendar was more accurate and of course, was right in line with the divine plan.

  the calendar was published in the 1935 yearbook, but the watchtower magazine later published a retraction to the calendar.

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  Saintbertholdt

  lifeday?...Like Wookie life day?

  
  
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  21

  Christopher Hitchens Vs Armageddon

  by The Marvster in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just spent a big part of today watching interviews, debates etc with richard dawkins.

  when i was a jw i used to hate this man with all my energy, i looked on him as the devil's offspring, he represented an idea that totally terrified me.

  today i found myself saying i love the man.

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  Saintbertholdt

  ...at Oxford University... he then taught himself programming language using zero's and 1's so he could make the computer do his calculations, and then ended up 'teaching' his fellow scientists the programming language.... my respect for him suddenly went through the roof... this guy is the man's man for sure...

  Check out the documentary on YouTube called: Nice Guys Finish First BBC (Richard Dawkins) 1986.

  There you'll see how he used evolutionary algorithms to produce a fascinating variation in body shapes. He was a pretty good researcher (kid playing with cool stuff) back in the day.
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  21

  Christopher Hitchens Vs Armageddon

  by The Marvster in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just spent a big part of today watching interviews, debates etc with richard dawkins.

  when i was a jw i used to hate this man with all my energy, i looked on him as the devil's offspring, he represented an idea that totally terrified me.

  today i found myself saying i love the man.

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  Saintbertholdt

  ...'am I technically an APOSTATE' now I'm sharing these ideas with people on this forum?
  

  Yep you're done for.

  I used to hate Carl Sagan and Dawkins.

  But now I love them both. Carl Sagan in a sexual way (just kidding), no like a gentle and kind friend, and Dawkins like a cantankerous uncle.

  I respect and admire Hitchens very much. An exceptional and funny orator/writer but he also could become very personal when he was confronted with some questioning or facts he did not care for.

  I would have liked to have had a fist fight with him when he was still alive and healthy.

  Sadly not to be so I declare myself the victor by default... ah hahahaha... take that Hitchens.