Posts by prologos

18

"Last days" of John 6:53-57

by pixel in

reading this section from jwfacts http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php (thanks for that excellent website!

) i came across this scripture: .

john 6:53-57 "accordingly jesus said to them: "most truly i say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.

prologos

hi all, Jesus said these words recorded in John 6 in PUBLIC ASSEMBLY, he was speaking to people with an earthly hope. (context trumps)

The talk of consuming the blood and flesh had everything to do with the last supper. it was progressive revelation at its best. that is why he could say after the passover meal: This IS or means my Blood and this IS or means my flesh (that I was talking about earlier when some others where stumbled).

Exercising faith means eating and drinking, not observing.

The last day is the thousand years. the 144 000 are resurrected PRIOR to the last day. so its the general Christian population, all should partake.

Its the Emblems that are symbolic. the eating and drinking is literal.

When Jesus served the Bead and the Wine, the disciples had an EARTHLY hope.

All those that eat and drink HAVE Everlasting Life. (obviously you have to die to be resurrected in the last day) but you HAVE in God's mind Everlasting Life.

The 144 000 have to SACRIFICE that right, just as Jesus did, to get IMMORTALITY and be resurrected, or raptured BEFORE the last day, to be kings and priests for that 1000 year day. The other partakers retain that right.

To suggest that John 6 applies only to the "anointed", that the OS should just observe, is the most blatant attempt to deprive persons of Everlasting life. Read John 6 carefully. its the strongest indictment of the consequence of erroneous doctrine. peace to you. caveat: (if it is all legit)

20

How would you answer? Part 1

by problemaddict in

so in my limited quest on here and elsewhere, i am intrigued by the kind of canned responses that come from conversations with my friends and family about "my doubts".

these are of course conversation i usually should not have had in the mind state i was in, or in any state right leaving wt?.

anyways, i wanted to throw out here some of the common things espoused, and see what you all thought was a fair and even handed response.

prologos

leavingwt on old man river: Mormon example: there was an exellent program on PBS dealing with mormon judicial hearings and shunning. The statement of the LDS spokesman was that " we recognize that LDS INTELECTUALS ARE THE GREATEST THREAT TO OUR FAITH". at least they have the money problem fixed with Romney et al giving 10%. ---- In one meeting with wt representatives and me, they had this line of proof: "You are clever, the wt says apostates are clever, so you must be an apostate!"

WHat I gather from comments here, hard line JWs are no match intelectually for contribitors here, but emotions can get you to say things that lead to (temporary) discomfort. peace.

35

New Light About FS--question

by DarioKehl in

jw
friends

so, if the current gb is this "faithful and discreet slave" and they place greater emphasis on 1919 now, are they saying that only a few anointed christians were selected in the 1st century, followed by nearly 2000 years of no selections and starting around 1914-1919, the selection of the rest of the 144,000 resumed?.

if so, this is an easy explanation for the increase in numbers of partakers since 2008. have they gone right out and said this officially or have they only alluded to it up to now?.

also, the original understanding was this "shut door" policy of 1935. i never understood how they arrived at that year.

prologos

The bad foundation of this remnant of PARTAKERS count is that they WTBTS INC dont understand the new covenant cup. Jesus served it to the earthly class believers. They WTBTS confuse the new covenant with the kingdom covenant. The chill of the 19 35 idea was that the new partakers were REPLACEMENTS. that meant that thousands had to be come judasses, unfaithful, which is probably not far from the truth. so they dropped 35, because Rev.7 shows the sealing will stop at the Big A. and The END did not come in 35, 38-9 75 may be 87?

Rightly : WE SHOULD ALL PARTAKE. that will keep them busy counting. (if its all legit) peace.

5

what will do more damage to WBTS Inc. Bizarre beliefs?, erring elders (shyster shepherds) or giant greed ??

by prologos in

jw
friends

notwithstanding the presence of sincere, honest, trusting, hardworking individuals, the overall effect of the org has cast a pall over many lifes.

which one of the above will cause the more damage and damage to them and inflicted by whom?.

prologos

notwithstanding the presence of sincere, honest, trusting, hardworking individuals, the overall effect of the org has cast a pall over many lifes. which one of the above will cause the more damage and damage to them and inflicted by whom?

85

The January 1st Watchtower Admits That JWs Have Been Wrong As To Their Expectations Of The End!...but

by minimus in

jw
friends

they excuse it by saying, it's ok since at least they were on the watch.. i believe they should think about god's view of watchmen who constantly gave false pronouncements.

they would be judged accordingly by god!.

prologos

simon morley : "you (wtbts) are culpable--" so right! more so because they were warned! how many letterd to brooklyn were ignored that questioned, proved they were wrong. letter s that were ignored, left unanswered. It was a deliberate, unexcusable sham. peace.

20

How would you answer? Part 1

by problemaddict in

so in my limited quest on here and elsewhere, i am intrigued by the kind of canned responses that come from conversations with my friends and family about "my doubts".

these are of course conversation i usually should not have had in the mind state i was in, or in any state right leaving wt?.

anyways, i wanted to throw out here some of the common things espoused, and see what you all thought was a fair and even handed response.

prologos

the wheat are many stalks bearing fruit, only the weeds are even less organized.

143

A thought experiment about what it means "to be" GOD

by Terry in

all believers in god begin with the premise that he is the creator.. but-stop!.

go back one step.

what about before god was a creator.. creation is the "beginning" for the created--but--not for god.. .

prologos

""to be" or not to be, that is the question" from the Bard. "I think, therefore I am." quoted. when we are saying "to be" do we mean being conscious, thinking.?

here are my naive, simplistic thoughts on this:

1) our evolved or created minds demand a cause (we experience it all the time)(even accidents have causes) but are stumped when we come up against the truly enormous quantities of the ALL (universe) we can perceive. We can think about, and show a math symbol for infinity, eternity(infinite time) but not truly comprehend it. Some yearn to see a personal creator as the cause and have him living in eternal time.

2) we think best in pictures The Teacher: Math 13:34. even Math formulae, equations are pictures of sorts. --some good illustrations, models have one or more dimensions removed for clarity to fit into our minds. In thinking about of God as a being , a person, it helps to take dimensions out of the picture, for example: eternal time. 3) Can we agree that the Universe the ALL had a beginning? But we are talking about the MATERIAL universe, energy, matter and its associated gravity, its expansion, its relentless movement through time. The Big Beginning, the climb out of the singularity.

4) some involved scientists realize that there are pre-bigbang conditions, even pre-bigbang time. so here is illustrated my humble understanding of

what it means " to be" God.

a) look at the time on your computer, write it down.

b) take a piece of paper, draw a line on it. [ "Post it" (r) of the 3M company] pad will do.

c) draw a crossing line on it.

e) fold the paper to turn at least one line 90degr. up at the crease.

f) look at the time and write it down again.

so here you have filled the three dimensions of space with something (lines) and you have done it in time. recorded time.

How are you as a living model different from GOd here?

Your time as a beeing is not eternal but started at conception, you wrote on paper, not the intangible dimensions of expanding space.

you were thinking , causing this to happen, you thought before you started , you are outside that folded paper, the computer clock is still recording.

You have, I think in a small very small way an understanding what it means "to be" God a creator. . peace.

38

After A Day In Field Service, Did You Get Euphoric Or A Spiritual High?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

i know this might sound silly but field service did provide a strange type of good feelings after i was done.

i called this the "halo-effect" because i felt so "righteous, obedient and good" for taking the weirdos or "the friends" in my station wagon.

vans and station wagon owners in the congregations often get used hard, pile up seven whacks and your off!

prologos

its also like flaggelating monks, they do it to get the high from the natural painkiller the body produces only when enough nerves signal hurt.

give until it hurts. peace.

30

I need your help friends. Which logical fallacy is being used here?

by I_love_Jeff in

jw states: since the apostles made mistakes, it is okay for us to make mistakes as well".

is it the logical fallacy of "two wrongs make a right"?

the apostles were directed by god, the governing body is not.

prologos

problemaddict: thank you.

1) yes they had an earthly hope and Jesus, our example, served the emblems to them. why dont you? The disciples were not wrong in their earthly hope,* Jesus taught them later, miraculously that there would also be a heavenly calling along with the continuing earthly hope.-- Acts 1:6,7 also showed that they (the future "GB") would "--not understand TIME and appointed times"so, WHy do you not obey Christ and proudly think that you can understand time? ? and pontificate about it? disfellowship people that listen to Christ in this?

2) yes , and Peter, being member of the non-existing "GB" he had to be publicly corrected by Paul, the itinerent contributor of spiritual food. Peter's personal attitude was not taught in the congregation. nobody was disfellowshipped for not following Peter's slow turnaround. following that pattern, In the same way members of the GB will, without fail, be corrected, publicly. ---- Because they are slow to see that the baggage they have inherited from R,R etal has been proven to be even worse than degenerate religious practises of Peters day.

3) the saying went out from whom? the GB? anybody disfellowshipped for originating, or not accepting that saying?

4) right! so where was the governing body, the zone overseer, the Branch, the DO, the CO to impose its rule? Elders directly answering to Christ! loss of eternal life for erring elders. a warning still in the inspired record for all of you to read. REv 3:4 " Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis--- because they are worthy--", yes these were the congregations, but only a few worthy ones among them were approved by CHRIST. A few among the (great)Crowd. many of these individuals you will find here.

note too, that this also happened in the Lords day. NOW! so read and apply again above: 4) right-----

Read the history of Israel a history of INSTITUTIONALIZED apostacy. ( type-antitype) from the top down. Who were the those loyal to Jehovah? the prophets, read hebr.11, mostly what fits your definition of an apostate. everytime there is new light its a tacid admission of past apostacy. you too will wake up. easier if you come from the top down. peace to you!. *Jesus even sacrificed his right to everlasting life on EARTH, the second Adam. (provided this is al legit)

142

CO Disfellowshipped in UK

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

so, i have it on very good authority that a co has recently been disfellowshipped in the uk.

he has just finished serving the north west london area.

i don't know any details but perhaps there is someone who does know what happened.

prologos

it would not be the first time. anyone remember a Br. Degrutchy? rumored in the 50s-60s to have seen the light?