startingover

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Posts by startingover

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  54

  What made YOU drop Christianity?

  by GetBusyLiving in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  after i read coc and left the dubs for a short while i considered myself christian.

  the way franz explained it, all that is required is to have faith in jesus and to love your neighbor as yourself and then you will be 'saved'.

  the more i started pealing away at the onion though the dumber the premise of someone dying for my 'sins' seemed, and i just lost faith in it altogether.

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  startingover

  What made me drop Christianity?

  Reading the Bible without having someone tell me what it is supposed to mean. I didn't get into it too many chapters and there were so many discrepancies I finally realized what it is, Hebrew mythology
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  39

  What book helped "open your eyes"

  by Shawn in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the obvious two would be coc and isocf.

  are there any others that had an impact on your beliefs/doubts?

  are there any that are not apostate?

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  startingover

  C of C and ISOCF opened my eyes as to my JW beliefs. But when that was done, then the matter of christianity came into question. The books that opened my eyes to that were "Is it God's Word" by Joseph Wheless, which can be found online here:

  http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/index.shtml

  and "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine.

  I read the book by Wheless first, and was blown away to discover it had been written in 1926. Then I was further blown away by Thomas Paine, discovering it was written in 1794.

  I guess another one I forgot about is located here:

  http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/vincent_runyon/left_ministry.html#c3

  The website by Joseph Alward http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html also had a great impact, because that was where I first came in contact with Hank's Ass. Truly a momentous occasion.
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  16

  Community Service and the JW's

  by startingover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a florists went to a barbershop for a haircut and went to pay the barber when he was done.

  the barber thought that was very nice.

  later that afternoon a cop came in for a haircut when he was finished he went to pay the barber but again the barber said he couldn't accept payment since he was doing community service.

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  startingover

  A florists went to a barbershop for a haircut and went to pay the barber when he was done. The barber said he couldn't accept anything for the haircut since he had to do community service. The florist thanked him and left. The next morning waiting on the doorstep of the barbershop when the barber came in was a dozen roses and a thank you card. The barber thought that was very nice. Later that afternoon a cop came in for a haircut When he was finished he went to pay the barber but again the barber said he couldn't accept payment since he was doing community service. The cop thanked him and left. The next morning when the barber came to work on the step was a dozen donuts and a thank you card. That day a Jehovah's Witness came in for a haircut. When finished he started to pay the barber and again the barber said he couldn't accept payment as he was doing community service. The brother thanked the barber and left. When the barber came in the next day, guess what he found on the step of the barbershop? Are you ready for this? He found a dozen Witnesses waiting for a haircut.
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  14

  Adam & Eve

  by startingover in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was watching a program the other night in which a group of people were reinacting the early american colonist's lives.

  they were supplied with homes and supplies which replicated the original conditions.

  i found it interesting how hard of a time they had surviving.

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  startingover

  I was watching a program the other night in which a group of people were reinacting the early American colonist's lives. They were supplied with homes and supplies which replicated the original conditions. I found it interesting how hard of a time they had surviving. In fact, it seemed that's what they spent all their time doing. Gathering wood, cultivating crops, finding food. Leisure time just didn't exist.

  It started me thinking about the story of Adam & Eve. They are always pictured in the WT literature as smiling and well groomed albeit naked. But where did they live? Did they have any shelter? Where did they sleep? Did they just eat fruit? Did they have fire? If so, did they cook their food? What did they cook it in? What did they use for toilet paper?

  It seems to me that life would have been very difficult, even when perfect, compared to the way most of us live today. I remember JW's complaining about this old system of things, and how they long for the paradise, when they will be able to enjoy life without all the stress. Personally, I am willing to put up with some stress to live right now. I like being able to go to a grocery store and pick from an endless variety of food. I like having a toilet with a roll of paper next to it and not have to worry about it after I flush it. I like the thermostat in my hallway that warms or cools me just by moving the dial. Sure walking is nice sometimes, but our transportation system is something I would hate to live without. What would life be like if you couldn't go to the store and buy just about anything you want? The thing is, most of the things we take for granted are only available through the industrialized society which contains some stress.

  I am so glad I live right now. BTW, I think the story of Adam & Even is just that, a story. But I would be interested in some believer's comments about what Adam & eve's life would have been like when they were still perfect.
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  61

  "I can't stop thinking about Jehovah's Witnesses!"

  by logansrun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've heard this said by a few ex-witnesses in my three years away from the organization, and have sometimes said it myself.

  sometimes it is said in the context of, "i'd like to move on, but i just can't stop thinking about them.

  could it not be that one of the reasons ex-jws "can't stop thinking about" the organization -- and their past involvement with it -- is that they daily log onto this site, read about the society and talk about them?

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  startingover

  Just my 2c:

  I too spend more time thinking about it now that I'm out than when I was in.

  But I have a reason. I have a wife who goes to all the meetings and service twice a week, parents who I visit everyday that have literature laying all over the coffee table in front of me, JW family that I see everyday, Saturday service groups stopping in the use my bathroom. They don't say anything to my face, but when I accidentally uncover emails from a close friend to a family member describing me as mentally ill and having a loathesome contagious disease, I know how they talk about me behind my back.

  Reading here has opened my mind to so many new things I can't begin to describe it. It's also great to know things about the org before my family does, just because. Knowing that I'm not alone in my feelings is priceless and with the info I get here I feel like I'm educating myself. I would also love to help my wife see the truth, and I get so many ideas presented here on how that can happen.

  Will there ever come a day when this is not so consuming in my life? Maybe, maybe not.
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  48

  Can it be proven that the WTS is NOT God's personal organization?

  by M.J. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine trying to prove to someone that firmly believes in leprechauns that they simply don't exist.

  where do you start?

  an excellent saying i have heard is "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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  startingover

  remove our heads out of the smothering sphincter of religious beliefs

  Now that's a quote to remember!
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  65

  How Would You Feel If A Poster Just Vanished?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can you imagine suddenly never hearing from gumby, blondie, metatron or simon again?

  think about never hearing from your favorite poster or online friend.

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  startingover

  I miss the musings of Terry.

  Funny, I just thought about Shotgun the other day.

  This thread reminds me of something that happened to me last year. I had a customer who became a friend, not a close friend but someone who would stop by every 6 months or so. One morning I was reading the obituaries and there was his name. He had died suddenly. It occurred to me if I had been out of town for a few days and missed that I would not have known he died. We didn't have mutual friends that would have told me what happened.

  It could easily happen online.
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  1

  Living Will Form

  by startingover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  living will form:.

  i, __________________________________ (fill in the blank), being of.

  sound mind and body, unequivocally declare that in the event of a. catastrophic injury, i do not wish to be kept alive indefinitely by.

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  startingover

  LIVING WILL FORM:
  
  I, __________________________________ (fill in the blank), being of
  sound mind and body, unequivocally declare that in the event of a
  catastrophic injury, I do not wish to be kept alive indefinitely by
  artificial means.. I hereby instruct my loved ones and relatives to remove
  any and all life-support systems, once it has been determined that my brain
  is no longer functioning in a cognizant realm. However that judgment should
  be made only after thorough consultation with medical experts; i.e.,
  individuals who actually have been trained, educated and certified as
  doctors.
  
  Under no circumstances -- and I can't state this too strongly --
  should my fate be put in the hands of politicians who couldn't
  pass ninth-grade biology if their lives depended on it. Furthermore, it is
  my firm hope that, whenever 'the time' does comes, any discussion about
  terminating my medical treatment should remain private and confidential.
  
  After seeing what is going on in Florida, however, I am acutely aware
  that the legislative and executive branches of state government are fond of
  meddling in family matters, and have little concern for the privacy and
  dignity of individuals.
  
  Therefore, I wish to make my views on this subject as clear and
  unambiguous as possible.
  
  Recognizing that some politicians seem cerebrally challenged
  themselves (and with no medical excuse), I'll try to keep this simple and to
  the point:
  
  1. While remaining sensitive to the feelings of any loved ones who
  might cling to hope for my recovery, let me state that if a reasonable
  amount of time passes -- say, ________ (fill in the blank) months -- and I
  fail to sit up and ask for a cold beer, it should be presumed that I won't
  ever get better. When such a determination is reached, I hereby instruct my
  spouse, children and attending physicians to pull the plug, reel in the
  tubes and call it a day.
  
  2. Under no circumstances shall the members of the Legislature enact
  a special law to keep me on life-support machinery. It is my wish that these
  boneheads will mind their own damn business, and pay attention instead to
  the health, education and the future of the millions of Americans who aren't
  in a permanent coma.
  
  3. Under no circumstances shall any governor in the USA butt into
  this case and order my doctors to put a feeding tube down my throat. I don't
  care how many fundamentalist votes he's trying to scrounge. It is my wish
  that he plays politics with someone else's life and leaves me to die in
  peace.
  
  4. I couldn't care less if a hundred religious zealots send e-mails
  to legislators in which they pretend to care about me. I don't know these
  people, and I certainly haven't authorized them to preach and crusade on my
  behalf. They should mind their own business, too.
  
  5. It is my heartfelt wish to expire quietly and without a public
  spectacle. This is obviously impossible once any elected officials become
  involved. So, while recognizing the wrenching emotions that attend the
  prolonged death of a loved one, I hereby instruct my relatives to settle all
  disagreements about my care in private or in the courts, as provided by law.
  
  
  If any of my family goes against my wishes and turns my case into a
  political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his
  or her existence a living hell........and for GOD's SAKE, keep that damn Jesse Jackson away from me!!!
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  28

  Sunday (4/10) is Special Talk!!!

  by TheListener in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yeah i know it's a regular yearly thing.

  but i wanted to make my post exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

  well, it's that time of the year again.

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  startingover

  I'll bet Michael Jackson will attend in Solvang, it being a special talk and all.

  Right after he prays with Jesse Jackson.

  I'll bet those elders in the cong. cringe when he comes in.
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  11

  Why can't I find "Captives of a Concept" in Amazon or Abebooks?

  by hubert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just finished reading "crisis of conscience" by ray franz, and decided my next book will be "captives of a concept", by don cameron.

  i just read a post with this info on it the other day.. however, when i go to abebooks.com, or amazon.com, and type in the information, it comes up "o" hits.

  i tried using the authors name, then tried the title, and got nothing.

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  startingover

  I downloaded Don's book for $5 and printed it out because I couldn't wait either.

  I just reread part of it last night, I think it's a great read.