Posts by konceptual99

29

Need clarification from someone who speaks JW: What is an "apostate" ...or... an "apostate website?"

by Faithful Witness in

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/27/jehovahs-witnesses-destroyed-notes-about-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-told.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/27/us-australia-religion-sexcrimes-iduskcn0q10ih20150727.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.

konceptual99

The Shepherd Book says the following ( chapter 5 pp65-66

16. Apostasy: Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment. It includes the following:
• Celebrating false religious holidays: (Ex. 32:4-6; Jer. 7:16-19) Not all holidays directly involve false religion and require judicial action.
• Participation in inter faith activities: (2 Cor. 6:14, 15,17,18) Apostate acts include bowing before altars and images and sharing in false religious songs and prayers.—Rev. 18:2, 4.
• Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses: (Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 John 7, 9, 10) Any with sincere doubts should be helped. Firm, loving counsel should be given. (2 Tim. 2:16-19, 23-26; Jude 22, 23) If one obstinately is speaking about or deliberately spreading false teachings, this may be or may lead to apostasy. If there is no response after a first and a second admonition, a judicial committee should be formed. -Titus 3:10, 11; w89 10/1 p. 19; w86 4/1 pp. 30,31 ;w86 3/15 p. 15.

Strictly speaking you cannot be DF'ed for having doubts. Of course it's not unknown. The problem comes if you start talking about those doubts as even minor conversations can be used against you.

Note the catch all "deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses". This means that whatever the current view as dispensed by the GB is forms the "truth". If there is a change one day to the next then you better step into line. If you express reservations on a subject then you can be accused of apostasy.

The label is used to demonise and control people. Being a wife beater is less reprehensible than being thrown out just because you can't get your head around some teaching. Criticising the organisation is an absolute no-no and counts as much as apostasy as disagreeing with doctrine.

The attitude is optimised on JWTalk. Anyone who expresses a liberal or cautious view on a matter risks being flamed, knocked down or banned. Comments of even moderate criticism are swiftly jumped on. Many on here who have tried to make comment on matters have been quickly banned.

23

ELEVEN YEARS on this Discussion Group

by Terry in

jw
friends

i looked at my statistics this morning:.

terry.

joined 11 years ago.

konceptual99

Just to add my thanks for your posts during my time on the board Terry.

21

In 3 and one half-hours time..

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

in 3 and one half-hours time..queen elizabeth will become the longest reigning sovereign ever.. you go, girl!.

.

konceptual99

Not just the British SecretSlaveClass. The French and the Dutch were pretty well practised in similar efforts.

I am no royalist and have no time for the sense of entitlement and privilege that is endemic in the British upper classes. I do wonder however what is really that different about many republics. If the UK ditched the maonarchy would it really be that much different?

The UK political scene is a nonsense of middle of the road policies that suit the well off regardless of the party proposing them. The US political landscape still features as much nepotism and family ownership of power as you would expect from an unelected monarchy. The legacy of imperialism and empire in places like South Africa still means those in power struggle to bring real change to the majority of those that were already oppressed yet abuse of power can continue unabated.

The truth of the matter as far as I can see is that man just keeps dominating man to his injury - one of the few sets of true words from the Bible.

60

New light from GB member David Splane!

by Island Man in

in the latest jw broadcast splane is quoted as saying:.

"suppose there was a man who died 10 minutes before joseph was born.

would he be part of joseph's generation?

konceptual99

Clearly, by most definitions of the term there is zero support for this dogs dinner of an explanation.

If you are generous then I think it is possible to concede some kind of acceptance that you could claim the term refers to those people alive during some more nebulous "age" - e.g. the "age of steam" - you could claim a term such as the "steam age generation" means people that were alive for the 200 odd years when steam trains were dominant.

The real question however for those that wish to believe anything in Matt 24 is worthy of taking as the truth, is how did Jesus intend it to be understood?

Is there anything in the wording that indicates any other understanding that what the common person back then would have understood by the term "generation". What part of "by no means will this generation pass away" gives any context or clarification that it would not refer to a group of people alive in the same 30-40 year period? What happened in the first century? What was the indication of what a generation was then in relation to when Jesus spoke these words and when Jerusalem fell?

As far as I can see there is zero evidence to suggest it should be taken any other way than the obvious one.

16

Solomon's Temple construction, things you realize when no longer asleep.

by Crazyguy in

ok so in 1kings chapters 5-6 is where we have the story of the construction of solomon's most holy temple to god, the supreme god.

it says that to build this magnificent temple they used 30,000 men, 10,000 per month.

another 70,000 common laborers in the hills digging up stone and 80,000 stone cutting laborers.

konceptual99

The linked thread is very interesting and great research. My only question is if the numbers could refer to not just the actual temple building but the whole temple area with it's courtyards etc.

That's not to diminish the still excessive quantities, just wondering if it is 100% accurate to limit the figures to the core building?

13

The Oesophagus of the whale shark and the story of Jonah

by purrpurr in

in the wt's literature it is often theorised that the "great fish" that swallowed jonah was a whale shark.

indeed looking at whale sharks with their wide huge mouths it seems reasonable to think that a human could fit in there.... ... until that is you do any research on it.

while the whales mouth is huge, it's oesophagus however is only a few inches wide.

konceptual99

You silly, silly people with your "science" and "facts". It woz God wot dunnit. Morons.

56

JW Threatened me with Violence Today :)

by cofty in

i popped into the supermarket for a few things after work today and found myself walking up an aisle alongside a couple who used to be in my tuesday group.

i see them reasonably often and always say hello much to their obvious annoyance.

i noticed that ian was sporting a shaggy beard.

konceptual99

Different people have different views on how they wish to deal with life and former friends/acquaintances after leaving the WTS organisation. Some are happy to leave it all in the past but I see nothing wrong with challenging stupid behaviour if done in a way suitable to the context.

According to Cofty's account, here we have a couple who seemingly are no longer completely under the control of the org yet persist in maintaining the worst aspect of the social control norms of the organisation - i.e. the "lalala, fingers in ears, I can't hear you" avoidance of any minimal acknowledgement of an ex-JW.

The guy could just have reacted to Cofty because he thinks Cofty is a belligerent arsehole. Maybe that's true. but even though I've never met Cofty, nothing he says on here suggests to me that he is needlessly provocative, belligerent or any type of person even approaching an arsehole. I suspect that it's more because Cofty touched a nerve about this guy's hypocritical and illogical actions.

Well done Cofty.

30

Debating evolution, intelligent design and cosmology with a JW

by Thestumbler83 in

ive been having an email exchange with a jw family member and the discussion seem to have become a bit heated and im not quite sure why.

i dont think ive said anything obviously offensive and ive been very careful with my wording.

but i think im sometimes a bit tone deaf with these things.

konceptual99

Hi TheStumbler.

You presented some great stuff but in my experience, including my very own outlook, you can lead a JW horse to water but you will never make it drink unless it wants to. If your father is not prepared or ready to take your eloquent reasoning on board then I think (sad to say) your chances of helping him see reason right now are low.

All the best with your efforts anyway of course!

406

ex-jw-uk

by bigmac in

jw
friends

i'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.

i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?

i've already found several by reading older posts..

konceptual99

RBC/LDC...

Basically they have further centralised the construction work, Everything gets pushed out of HQ and then implemented by the LDCs in countries. They are trying to get much of the oversight work done by full time people so that things can happen without depending on the availability of volunteers at fairly senior levels.

More work is being done by outside contractors.

On the ground, grunt work is still essentially the same people who did the RBC stuff but more of the overseers are Bethel workers.

Of course, part of the reason is that now the WTS has done an asset grab they need to have tight control of exactly who gets to have a new hall. They are also moving to bigger projects where outside contractors are more usable.

The RBC setup still allowed for too much autonomy so they have closed that loophole.

22

What Qualifications does Geoffrey Jackson have as a Translator of the Bible ? In any Capacity ?

by smiddy in

geoffrey jackson left school at the age of 15 and began pioneering , he never attended a university ,never studied ancient greek ,hebrew or aramaic at any recognized teaching academy , he has no certificates or credentials / qualifications from any place of learning that is approved by a competent body of religious instruction .. and by his own words at the australian royal commission , under oath he stated that was his primary role as a translator of scripture into other languages .. a 15 year old drop out from school in australia is the chief/ prime translator of the bible for jehovah`s witnesses world wide in their many languages that they preach in .. it would be very interesting to see his report cards for those few years he did attend school .. is it just me , or does anybody else see that his qualifications don`t come up to scratch to be a translator of the old testament or the new testament scriptures , and be taken seriously as a translator of either , into any language.. if i am wrong anywhere in this post feel free to correct me .. smiddy.

konceptual99

GJ has spent alot of time in the Pacific islands apparently and knows the local languages very well. especially Tuvaluan. He and his wife were critical in the translation of literature into this language and they have even written a books on the subject.

This experience is his qualification....

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20150815/let-many-islands-rejoice

Here's a good quote...

In 1980 the branch office assigned us to work as translators—a work for which we felt totally unqualified.