Don't forget as well that August is the last month of the service year. I bet you any money they are pushing for the largest number of hours, pioneers, tracts (which are now on the report), etc. ever so they can make capital out of the "great shout of praise in this momentous year".
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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41
The CO visit this week he says" In August..."
by James Jackson inup until 5 years ago, the co used to work up their own parts for specfic congregations in their circuits.
everything is up to script, in other words, every co in the country are givings the same talks in the local congregations they visit.
what got me to cringe is when he said at the meeting, trying to encourage everyone to pioneer this august; he said :" you know this october it will be 100 years since gods kingdom began ruling, remember what happen when joshua told the israelites to march around jericho on the seventh day, and what happened when they let out a great war cry?
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Convicted paedophile allowed to grill his victims at Jehovah's Witness meeting
by Sapphy inhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-paedophile-jonathan-rose-grilled-7151197.
oh my goodness, i'm so angry i can't even speak!
"women who complained that former jehovahs witness elder jonathan rose, 40, had molested them as children relived their nightmares in front of him after he was released from jail".
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konceptual99
I can certainly see why serious questions might be raised by the elders. Please allow me to play Devil's Advocate and speak from the perspective of the Defense for a moment.
1) Rose never admitted guilt at any point. He maintained his innocence from the beginning to the end.
I don't really see why that matters. People claim innocence all the time which is why the judicial process seeks to establish the truth of the matter based on evidence and witnesses. In the context of the JC then lets presume innocence. There was still no need or justification for a face to face grilling under the direction of unqualified men.
2) Jane Doe 0 had already made apparently false accusations against Rose in the past, so her involvement in this new case and her behind the scenes coordination with the other women should be a giant red flag.
Fair comment but that was taken into account in the legal process yet there was still a conviction.
3) Rose's behavior around the family of Jane Doe 1 is not consistent...
That means nothing as other posters have pointed out. Guilty people do all sorts of strange things. There are cases of child abduction and murder here in the UK where the perpetrator has been right there in the forefront of the search, acted as a spokesperson for the family and raised their profile not just to the family but to the media.
4) Jane Doe 2 was apparently quite the wild child...
Ok, there is the basis for examining the possibility of a grudge based wild accusation but it would also be unfair to assume that is case.
I accept that the Shepherd book does not expressly forbid a face to face meeting of more than one witness with an accused but it is extraordinary. You might argue this was an extraordinary case and perhaps in the world of WT fuzzy logic the process of allowing the accused to answer a charge was required. There was still no need to have a face to face grilling. This whole WT setup in these situations places the burden of proof to be on the victim and not the accused yet in most other JC situations it's the other way round and the accused is usually afforded little opportunity to counter the evidence of witnesses, especially if there are two. Pistoff has summed this up perfectly.
There were two, because Jane Doe 0's testimony should not have carried any weight at that point.
Accepted however there were still two witnesses and the whole setup was poorly handled. Whatever the context of how these women came to meet with Rose and the BOE, their objectives and agenda it would have been WT Legal, through the BOE, calling the shots. They had control over the nature of the meeting and they failed to manage it in a way that was cognisent of the risk of emotional harm to the victims and in a way that is consistent with how accused ones are treated in other far less serious circumstances.
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The WT Isn't Going Away (sorry got long)
by LostGeneration ini've seen more threads and comments in the last week about the "demise of the wt" than in some time.
several were on threads about the donation arrangement and how its going to backfire in some way on the wt.
oh and the lone elder who was pissed in some sort of passive-aggresive manner about it when he presented the resolution.
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konceptual99
Never say never but I think the OP is pretty much spot on.
Even if only 25% donate $100 in a whole year thats $200,000,000 a year, now they are at 8,000,000 publishers.
Even if only 10% donate $100 then you have $80,000,000. Are you seriously telling me that the global revenues are less than $80m? The use of volunteers makes the money go further. The fact they own most of their properties outright gives them immense reserves in assets. Paying multiole times over for assembly facilities brings in even more money.
I wonder if this move is also going to protect against a possible move of DCs (sorry RCs) to JW owned venues on a smalller scale. The purpose of making 2 one day CA events has to be to enable greater capacity at assembly halls. Congregations are being encouraged to get teched up with projectors, broadband links and so on. I wonder if there will be so many RC events in large, rented stadiums in 5 years time. Get the R&F to an assembly hall on 3 occasions a year (4 if they do the AGM) and see the money come in on a building already paid for.
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Convicted paedophile allowed to grill his victims at Jehovah's Witness meeting
by Sapphy inhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/convicted-paedophile-jonathan-rose-grilled-7151197.
oh my goodness, i'm so angry i can't even speak!
"women who complained that former jehovahs witness elder jonathan rose, 40, had molested them as children relived their nightmares in front of him after he was released from jail".
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konceptual99
"There are numerous examples of where individuals have faced kangeroo JCs, accused of some sin yet never known who their accusers (forming the legendary two witnesses) are let alone had the opportunity to grill them."
This is again heresay and conjecture. Better would be to find official written rules governing these meetings, and then we could judge how well individual bodies of elders either stick to the rules or disobey them (provided we actually had accurate information about what went on during the meeting).
Not really conjecture. Just ask around on this board. The rules are published in the Shepherd book. They do suggest a meeting between an accused and a single witness. This is not required if there are two witnesses. I can see exactly why this meeting occurred in the world of JW judicial "logic". That does not mean it was sensible or appropriate. It does not mean that there is consistancy between how Rose was dealt with and how others are dealt with in JC situations.
Perhaps they already did take the trial examinations into account, and simply found them lacking.
Perhaps. In fact the way the rules are and the way WT legal works then they probably completely discounted the results of the legal process. Perhaps this is the fair thing to do - seperate the two tracks. That, however, is inconsistant with the rest of society. Individuals criminal records are taken at face value in many, many situations.
Even if you accept that it is fair to ignore the secular judicial process, even if you accept that a JC should operate purely on the basis of 2 witnesses then the rules only allow for a face to face with a single witness. There were three. Again, if you give the WTS process the benefit of the doubt then it is MHO that allowing it to happen in the circumstances as reported is ignorant and naive, symptomatic of the convoluted mess that WT Legal have produced.
I can see the danger in baseless accusation of child abuse. I can see the risks of being forced to accept any testimony when verification is impossible. I don't think that being cognisant of this constitutes being some kind of apologist for peodophiles. That does not mean that I think the WTS is anywhere close to where they should be in how they handle the accused and how they do their best to prevent abuse occuring.
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FAT BURNERS????
by DATA-DOG ini need a good fat-burner.
i am getting some serious love handles, and a gross poochy belly.
yeah, yeah...i drink almost every night, and this has been going on for almost 2 years, blah, blah..hic!?
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konceptual99
I repeat....
Like many things related to content on this board, listen to Cofty. He is right.
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JwTalk confirms it's all bollocks
by konceptual99 inread this earlier on jwtalk in a thread about if the 100 years of the kingdom is part of the 1000 year reign.. actually this question goes back to how the brothers believed and saw things back in bro.
russell's day.
they thought 6000 years of human history and christ's second presence began in 1874, ( their chronology was 100 years off from that which we now accept - this was corrected in the 1940s ) believing such they thought the 1000 year reign began at that time.
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konceptual99
Read this earlier on JWtalk in a thread about if the 100 years of the kingdom is part of the 1000 year reign.
Actually this question goes back to how the brothers believed and saw things back in Bro. Russell's day. They thought 6000 years of human history and Christ's second presence began in 1874, ( their chronology was 100 years off from that which we now accept - this was corrected in the 1940s ) Believing such they thought the 1000 year reign began at that time. Interestingly, seeing all the progress the industrial revolution was bringing, they believed these were signs Jehovah was beginning to prepare the earth for all the blessings fortold to be brought about by the Kingdom. That is why they referred to it as " Millennial Dawn", and people began to refer to them as Millenial Dawners.
Well after 1914, and the brothers began to see things did not work out all the way they expected ( this system did not end, and they were not taken to heaven ). As Bro Macmillan once said, they went back to the drawing board to see what was wrong with the way they understond things. As a result, they began to see in time that 1914 was the beginning of Christ's Second Presence. and they advanced in their understanding of Armaggedon and Christ's 1000 year reign. As a result they came to the conclusion, as explained already by other brothers on this thread, that the 1000 years comes after Armeggedon, and the binding and abyssing of Satan. So these are flashes of Scriptural truths that became plain to the brothers early in this past century, and which we now have consistently taught for many years.
I don't think I have heard anything in a very long time that so completely sums up why this whole religion is a load of bollocks as this crock of shite.
How in the name of jumping Jehosophat does this sound even remotely reasonable??
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...The WBT$ Theft of Kingdom Hall Bank Accounts and JW Elders...
by OUTLAW in.. the new wbt$ donation arrangement/ jw kingdom hall bank account theft... is a very hot topic right now... the wbt$ is literally going to clean out kingdom hall bank accounts,filled with donations from jws... that theft is going to happen world wide..the wbt$ is going to steal from 7 million plus jw`s... .. we have jw elders here on jwn,that know whats going on... they "serve" in kingdom halls,they are "supposed" to be looking after the welfare of the average jw... they know there is a 4 page letter,only one page will be read to the congregation..the rest will be kept secret... they know the wbt$ is about to steal jw donations..on a world wide scale!!!...
.. i would like to know what you active jw elders are going to do about this??!!...
are you going to let "your" congregation know about the other 3 secret pages?...
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konceptual99
I would say that if you do not want to donate the chosen amount, then do not vote for it. But your vote cannot override the vote of the majority, simple as that.
The publishers also have say in this matter in that the new monthly donation resolution will be based on an anonymous survey of family heads. If you do not agree with the new donation arrangement and do not wish to participate, then simply do not vote or put 0, and your share of donations will not count.
100% agree but very few will be making the choice based on knowledge of the full facts. The WTS has deliberately kept instructions away from the R&F to reduce the risk of dissention. It's disingenuous at the very least.
[EDIT]
And just to add, that in most congregations that had a loan from the WTS there was no survey, the loan amount was simply presented as the sum for the resolution. Job done.
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...The WBT$ Theft of Kingdom Hall Bank Accounts and JW Elders...
by OUTLAW in.. the new wbt$ donation arrangement/ jw kingdom hall bank account theft... is a very hot topic right now... the wbt$ is literally going to clean out kingdom hall bank accounts,filled with donations from jws... that theft is going to happen world wide..the wbt$ is going to steal from 7 million plus jw`s... .. we have jw elders here on jwn,that know whats going on... they "serve" in kingdom halls,they are "supposed" to be looking after the welfare of the average jw... they know there is a 4 page letter,only one page will be read to the congregation..the rest will be kept secret... they know the wbt$ is about to steal jw donations..on a world wide scale!!!...
.. i would like to know what you active jw elders are going to do about this??!!...
are you going to let "your" congregation know about the other 3 secret pages?...
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konceptual99
Posters here are still acting silly. Both the adjusted continuing montly donation and the possible one time special donation have to be approved through congregation resolution, which means a vote. All of these goofballs shouting "theft!" and "illegal use of already committed funds!" don't seem to understand the concept of the same group of people who made the donations in the first place voting as a group to change the allocation of those funds.
True enough in principle. The question is whether or not those presenting the resolution are presenting the full facts. The question is if those voting are fully briefed about the change and it's implications. You should well know that any resolution presented in matters like this is simply passed. The implications of this change go well beyond a simplistic view that "it's all just money donated to Jehovah" and those making the choice are ignorant of this, and not even willfully so.
Changes like this are always presented as being a choice, controlled by the congregation, but it's inevitably Hobson's Choice with the WTS choice being the only acceptable way.
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Is The Governing Body Open To Lawsuits In Some Countries Over Enforced Shunning Of Ex Members?
by frankiespeakin inhave they crossed some sort of legal line when they enforce shunning of ex members?
can they get sued for harassment?
what are the legal boundaries they have crossed by enforce shunning of ex member by threatening disfellowshipping of any member not shunning certain individuals?
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konceptual99
I have given thought to what effect a typical business lawsuit might have in the case of a disfellowshipping: for defamation of character, interference with business, interference with professional reputation, etc. Does anyone think that would stick?? There are possibly real, definable financial damages (as opposed to "harrassment" and other more emotional damages)
As stated before, good luck with this. I wish something could stick but it won't. People have a choice who they talk to, who they choose to associate with. Unless there is a contractual obligation between two parties that is unilaterally broken then there is very little scope for any kind of civil action as far as I can see. For a professional opinion go and see a lawyer.
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FAT BURNERS????
by DATA-DOG ini need a good fat-burner.
i am getting some serious love handles, and a gross poochy belly.
yeah, yeah...i drink almost every night, and this has been going on for almost 2 years, blah, blah..hic!?
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konceptual99
Like many things related to content on this board, listen to Cofty. He is right.