Smiddy...I see I missed your question regarding Yahweh and his Ashera.
Inscription 3 from Khirbet el Qom reads:
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Yahweh OF Samaria
by peacefulpete inmost everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.
interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.
the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.
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peacefulpete
- "Uriyahu the honourable has written this
- Blessed is/be Uriyahu by Yahweh
- And [because?] from his oppressors by his asherah he has saved him
- [written] by Oniyahu"
- "...by his asherah
- ...and his asherah"[4][5]
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Yahweh OF Samaria
by peacefulpete inmost everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.
interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.
the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.
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peacefulpete
So how how does a person determine if the editorial process I mentioned above is the best explanation as opposed to the narrative as the priests described it. IOW was the presence of Ashera and other deities really the backsliding of a stubborn wayward people who yearned to be like the neighboring cultures or was it in fact the culture of the peoples from ancient times and it was would-be reformers who periodically sought to change that culture?
For me, I step back and ask questions like why is the first temple in appearance and function identical to the temples of deities through the near east? Why does the OT preserve ancient poems and songs that mirror those of neighboring cult and cultures? Why does he OT say that originally Yahweh like near all other deities was worshipped at a number of high places (even after first Jerusalem temple built on a hill,1 Kings 18:20)? Why would stories like the Aaronic golden calf story Ex 32:4 and 1Kings 12:28,9 explicitly identify the god that took them from Egypt as worshipped with calves? The face value of the stories strongly suggest a post Exilic editor has reworked material that portrayed the traditional use of calves and Ashera iconology. The more you look the clearer it becomes that Israel and Judah were for most of their history quite typical of the region surrounding them. The introduction of Yahweh (likely from the south) began a long process of often violent reformation toward a State religion worshipping one deity. It wouldn't stick despite many attempts. It was really only the Babylonian domination of the region and subsequent Persian influence that enabled these reformers to finally win. To make the transition appear ancient they freely revised their history as one long cautionary tale of the evils of worshipping deities other than Yahweh.
As has been noticed for many years this in many ways parallels the reforms of pharaoh Akhenaten. He too made an effort to move Egypt away from polytheism toward a monolatrous cult of Aten the sun god, approaching monotheism. Akhenaten closed the temples of Amun and other deities and actually had scribes alter inscriptions on stone walls to change wording from gods to god. In Egypt the reforms didn't stick either, just a few years later his reforms were reversed.
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Yahweh OF Samaria
by peacefulpete inmost everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.
interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.
the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.
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peacefulpete
By "most everyone" I meant those who felt free to do independent research. Revisioning of history is an ancient game. The winner writes the history. As far as the OT, it went through a process that reflected the sensitivities and agenda of the priesthoods in control of the documents. As the shift from henotheism to monotheism occurred in fits and starts over hundreds of years the editorial process was similarly piecemeal and somewhat clumsy. Rather than remove entire stories and pericopes it was often preferred to simply recast the story in a negative light or as a warning tale. The OT is filled with references to the people worshipping the goddess and other deities, even in the temple. (2Kings 23:4,The king ordered Hilkiah the high priest, the priests next in rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the temple of the LORD all the articles made for Baal and Asherah and all the starry hosts. He burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron Valley and took the ashes to Bethel.)
These preserve actual practice and match the numerous goddess figurines found in ancient Israel/Judah. The scribes who later worked the text and even some of the authors themselves recast this traditional cult as aberrant or backward. To the elite Yahwist mind this was the unsophisticated naivety of the common people, but in fact it was the norm and despite their efforts to editorialize, the priest preserved this historical reality.
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Yahweh OF Samaria
by peacefulpete inmost everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century bc kuntillet ‘ajrud inscriptions that mention yahweh and his ashera, that is that yahweh was understood as having a female consort.
interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god yahweh himself.
the writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics.
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peacefulpete
Most everyone has heard of the 8th/9th century BC Kuntillet ‘Ajrud inscriptions that mention Yahweh and his Ashera, that is that Yahweh was understood as having a female consort. Interesting as that is, often overlooked in the inscriptions are the names of the god Yahweh himself. The writings are themselves apparently practice work by scribes learning the trade and cover many topics. But of interest now are the blessings given in the name of "Yahweh of Samaria" and "Yahweh of Teman", or simply 'Yahweh Samaria' and 'Yahweh Teman'. What this suggests is that Yahweh was regarded as a regionalized deity much like Baal who was often referred to by regional names like Baal of Gad, Ba‘al Hermon, Ba‘al Hazor, Ba‘al Peor etc.
This was the norm in the world of religion. In a time when travel and communications were difficult, demanding adherents travel days or weeks to visit a temple to their deity was a lot to ask. Surely the gods would be pleased with a second, or multiple, temples to facilitate worship. With time, localized variations of cult practice or story would result.
A fine article by Nadav Na’aman of Tel Aviv University entitled In Search of the Temples of YHWH of Samaria and YHWH of Teman has linked these two expressions with other extrabibical usage and as well as references in Kings, Amos and Hosea to temples in the north at Bethel of Samaria and Beer-sheba of of Teman in the south. There Yahweh was still worshiped using the more ancient symbolism of a bull in those locations.
My interest in this topic of a regionalization of Yahweh came up when discussing the recent further centralization of the WT church organization. Anyone who has traveled learns that the JWs while generally united in loyalty to the WT headquarters display a surprisingly diversity in enforcement of rules and strictness of conformity. I wonder if one of the motivations for shifting to recorded media and lessening the teaching role of the local church leadership is to tighten ranks and control.
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peacefulpete
Used to have one for a snack each night. I was watching calories so usually blueberries and ice and stevia sugar substitute.
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Will Christ Be Ashamed To Claim P.IM.O.'s?
by IWant2Leave ini started my fade about two years ago and at present i have no intention of writing a disassociation letter.
the pros and cons of being p.i.m.o.
have been discussed on this forum many times.
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peacefulpete
Many (millions) people are no longer active JWs but carry baggage from their experience. I know some who fearfully refuse to renounce the GB, some who fear death in an impending doomsday, some who don't do holidays thinking "at least I don't do that". Its not surprising given the depth of the programming and methods of control used by the group. I used to say of such folks that they left for the wrong reasons. Some were kicked out for nonconformity, others left because of emotional abuse etc. They problem is, the programming must be addressed to be able to move on and start a new life. There are posters here for many years who still cling to aspects of the doctrine and identity. They may even see themselves as true JWs. My heart breaks for them. Always not good enough or always unable to embrace the larger world. Always outsiders.
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1914 Questions
by sweetyj inim not sure if this has already been asked here but i have some questions about 1914. if jesus arrived "invisibly" in the year 1914 why do the anointed partake of the emblems?
why didn't they stop in 1914?.
if jesus is ruling in heaven then why are the anointed still on earth?
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peacefulpete
They actually taught that Jesus arrived in 1874 and would become manifest in 1914 (40 years later). When that failed they danced around for a few years struggling to offer a few reasons for delay then revised their numbers saying they had actually said he would arrive in 1914. The 1874 actually was a spring off of the Millerites prediction of 1844. They added (30 years, Jesus time on earth). Its a tangled mess of pyramids and imaginary parallels. In the end when coincidently ww1 started kinda close to their 1914 date it cemented the prediction as fixed. They have been stuck with it since.
Your question about why they continue to do the sacraments is a valid one and reflects the arbitrary way they have timed expressions like "arrived" and "comes". Careful reading of old WT material showed me and my wife how often they casually shifted the timing of certain passages, I believe without awareness of doing it. I made the mistake of commenting that an statement i the WT was "new light" as they had applied a passage to a new time. I was told assertively it was not new or we would have been told it was new. I showed them the previous application and they told me to be quiet and not divisive. Its for good reason they no longer encourage having an extensive library.
In the end I imagine they need the sacraments to serve as a distinction between hierarchy and lay class.
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OMG Gretta von funberg is trying to sing
by mickbobcat inthis stupid little autistic twit is a no talent hack.
she can not dance, sing or even talk well.
the liberal idiots follow this little idiot like she is the oracle of delphi.
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peacefulpete
Its so embarrassing to see adults act so childish. -
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Help me figure out what to say...I'm not usually at a loss for words
by Terry inwell, i finally found him on facebook!.
his name is tollie padgett.
he was my congregation overseer (before the "elder" changeover) when i was in prison in seagoville in the late 60's.. i've been searching for him for years and years.
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peacefulpete
Found a missionary couple we served with after only 25 years. Tried to find something to talk about but eventually his apostate radar kicked in and he shut me out.
Digging up bones.......exhuming things better left alone.
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Interesting Scripture!
by Iamallcool inhttps://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/jeremiah/20/#v24020007 .
.i have never noticed this scripture!
verse 7. i have never read the whole bible!
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peacefulpete
It is an interesting turn of phrase, "You fooled/deceived me" . It reflects the more primitive sentiment that humans are tools/ pawns in the Yahweh's hands. While how much of the book reflects the work of the one man is hotly debated, the message of Jeremiah at least here is one of capitulation to Babylon. Make what you will of the mental state of the prophets, he was sure Babylon was going to clobber them and felt the best course was to bow down.
His message was understandably unpopular and viewed as traitorous.
The priest had him put in stocks and he was ridiculed for his lack of faith and courage.
As a prophet during Josiah's attempts to reform the religion of Judah he was of the Yahwist camp that no doubt delighted in his insistence upon exclusive Yahweh worship.
He saw the Egyptians then kill Josiah and then depose Josiah's son Jehoahaz from the throne and appoint Jehoiakim king. Then he saw Egypt's rival Babylon take over and siege Jerusalem and Jehoiakim change allegiance from Egypt to Babylon. Then "Babylonian,[a] Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite" raiders come and kill Jehoiakim, possibly for some revolt(??)
The Babylon subsequently appointed Jehoiachin/Jeconiah as king at either 8 or 18 years old.
3 months later Babylon sent armies to collect the royals to take them to Babylon for assimilation and education.
Jeremiah suggested they give up but the King insisted upon resistance.
Jeremiah saw a lot of confusing turns of events and likely felt a bit "fooled" much of the time.