patio34

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Posts by patio34

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  6

  Alan F: Dateline TV Show?

  by patio34 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alanf,.

  in the thread on greenlees, you mentioned an upcoming dateline tv show on jws handling of molesters.

  could you please post the time, etc.?.

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  patio34

  AlanF,
  In the thread on Greenlees, you mentioned an upcoming Dateline TV show on JWs handling of molesters. Could you please post the time, etc.?

  I put it on a new thread, because I thought you might miss it on the other one.

  Thanks!

  Patio
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  39

  Fraud?

  by NICKITA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems that many who post on this board hold that the jw organization is a fraud, schemed mainly bu the g.b.

  members.

  but so far i have never read something as to the reasons behind the fraud.

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  patio34

  TR,

  My sentiments exactly! WHO gives a plugged nicked why they do what they do? It doesn't make it the truth because someone may have good motives, not that I think they do. There may be all kinds of motives, but who knows? Who cares? Not me!

  Bug Eye,

  Whoa! Back up the train a bit there sonny-boy! I, and probably a lot more like me (all the ones I personally know) left for intellectual reasons. I am a 54-year-old grandmother who has no intentions of being immoral, etc. So you can keep your speculations to yourself, sweet pea! I'm not bitter either. It is just untenable intellectually to believe such a fundamentalist view. And it was unfair of the WTBS to stop their members from reading and learning what science really says and to insist that only their outdated ignorant views be considered.

  Harumph! It's a cheap shot to call someone "bitter" because they are justifiably angry and seeking justice at a cult that took up so much of their lives. Would you call all victims 'bitter' if they were angry at being victimized? How petty and small-minded if you would.

  Patio
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  25

  Are 'we' Rubbing the dubs?

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody considered the possibility that the internet community may be making life worse for dubs, as a whole, rather than better?.

  i recently had a medical scare, went through testing, and scans.

  a doctor even called round my house uninvited to give me a hospital appointment!

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  patio34

  Philo,

  Imo Java is correct. However, is the premise true that the WTBS is 'at war' because of us on the net? And does it make life harder for dubs? I think the answer is no to both.

  The WTBS has always been 'at war' with someone. Even people who pay no attention to them. It's the governments, the churches, the evil 'world,' ad nauseum. The 'apostates' (read heretics) are just another group of people 'against the poor godly people of Jehovah'. BOO-HOO!

  So, no, the info on the web doesn't make the paranoid WTBS harder on joe-dub. Besides, they can get hoisted with their own petard, if you will, if they are harder because the average joe-dub will only take so much.

  I, for one, am SO grateful for the info on the web and this DB!! I left only 2 months ago and it has been an inestimable help. You can only find out so much at the public library.

  So, all of you that are working hard to overcome oppression--THANKS!

  Patio
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  5

  Capsule of Evolution

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this section from 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins has really answered questions for me:.

  the language appears to be arbitrary n the same sense as a human language is arbitrary (there is nothing intrinsic in the sound of the word "house", for instance, which suggests to the listerner any attribute of a dwelling).

  'given this, it is a fact of great significance that every living thing, no matter how diefferent from others in external appearance it may be, 'speaks' almost exactly the same language at the level of the genes.

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  patio34

  Thanks Terraly,

  I agree the 'books are the most patient of teachers.'

  Dawkins points out that 99% of biologists agree that evolution DID happen. Whether one wants to believe a creator directed it, etc., is not their area of expertise.

  It's wonderful to be able to read these things now. One thing is clear, the WTS publications were grossly, almost criminally, inaccurate in presenting the evolutionists' side of the issue. It was stupid of me to rely on their books.

  One other thing you mentioned is humans descended from animals. Really, it seems more like humans branched off from them and developed much more.

  I haven't read anything by Gould, but, of course, he's referred to in Dawkins' book. I did read a very good article by Gould on having cancer that was on the Internet.

  Evolution is a complicated subject and very new to me, but fascinating.

  Take care,
  Patio
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  5

  Capsule of Evolution

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this section from 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins has really answered questions for me:.

  the language appears to be arbitrary n the same sense as a human language is arbitrary (there is nothing intrinsic in the sound of the word "house", for instance, which suggests to the listerner any attribute of a dwelling).

  'given this, it is a fact of great significance that every living thing, no matter how diefferent from others in external appearance it may be, 'speaks' almost exactly the same language at the level of the genes.

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  patio34

  This section from 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins has really answered questions for me:

  The genetic dictionary has 64 DNA words of 3 letters each. The language appears to be arbitrary n the same sense as a human language is arbitrary (there is nothing intrinsic in the sound of the word "house", for instance, which suggests to the listerner any attribute of a dwelling).

  'Given this, it is a fact of great significance that every living thing, no matter how diefferent from others in external appearance it may be, 'speaks' almost exactly the same language at the level of the genes.
  'The genetic code is universal. I regard this as near-conclusive proof that all organisma are descended from a single common ancestor.

  'Molcular biology suddenly opened a new treasure chest of resemblances to add to the meagre list offered by anatomy and embryology.

  'Though all living things share the same dictionary they don't all make the same sentences with their shared dictionary. This offers us the opportunity to work out varying degrees of cousinship.

  Closely similar protein or DNA sentences can be assumed to come from close cousins, more different sentences from more distnt cousins.
  We can measure exactly how many steps separate one animal from another. ..

  The molecular clock allows us to estimate, not just which pairs of animals have the most recent common ancestors, but also approximately when those common ancestors lived.

  We can use the molecular clock to date branch points in the evolutionary tree.

  DNA sequences are the gospel documents of all life, and we have learned to decipher them.

  Chimpanzees and hmans share more than 99% of their genes.

  The last common ancestor of humans and chimps lived perhaps as recently as 5 million years ago, dfinitely more recently than the common ancestor of chimps and orangutans, and perhaps 30 million years more recently than the common ancestor of chimps and monkeys.

  (Taken from pps. 263 and 270,271)
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  5

  ANCIENT GREEK MYTHOLOGY

  by d0rkyd00d in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i personally love greek and roman mythology.

  it is extremely interesting to find what they believed.

  however, how could people in today's world be so uninformed and stupid.

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  patio34

  Dorkydood,

  That has been one of the fields of reading I've been doing since leaving 2 months ago. It's amazing what all in the bible comes from mythology of one sort or the other. Say, 95% of the Bible?

  For instance, the Sumerians, who had the first writing way before the Hebrews, had myths about a serpent, a paradise, a flood, a king (Sargon 1) who was put into a river in a basket as a babe and rescued, etc.

  As far as baptisms and demons (which aren't really mentioned much in the OT and are ubiquitous in the NT), they seem to come from the mystery religions popular in the time, such as the Mithraists.

  There is plenty to read on the subject. On the forum of Bible Research are a couple of threads you'd like: one by ISP on the Jesus puzzle (and a website with tons of info) and one by me about Jesus born of a virgin?

  Also, do a search on the web on Jesus mysteries or Mithraists, etc. There is a wealth of information.

  Mithra, the Roman and Persian god, was called a saviour, a mediator, the lamb of god, and more similarities to Jesus. Paul was from Tarsus (a big center of Mithra worship) and there can be found many sayings in his writings that are in Mithraism. It was a mens-only religion and Roman soldiers were in that religion. Paul's allusions to soldiers, complete suit of armor, warfare have been commented on that it fits Mithraism more than Christianity.

  One point I want to look into is his statement of being caught away to the 7th heaven. That also seems to reflect the Mithraism or popular beliefs of the day, and certainly not the bible OT.

  I could go on an on. It's so fascinating. Oh! Another thread with good references is 'baptisms'--you'll have to do a search as it was about 2 months ago. Also, demons.

  Good reading!

  Patio
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  12

  Do you appreciate the Watchtower Magazine?

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dont you know that there is no more important magazine on the earth today then the watchtower magazine?.

  as we know it is in that very magazine jehovah makes his official notifications to mankind.

  since jehovah apparently isnt at all interested in reaching all of mankind he isnt using tv or radio.

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  patio34

  Norm,

  I second Outnfree's gratitude. I used to never miss a WT (yes, gullible!), but now never miss one of your threads.

  Thanks!

  Patio
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  11

  Witness Kids and Disfellowshipped Parents

  by tergiversator in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd share my own experience on the subject (sorry it gets a little long winded!

  ) and ask how having to shun relatives as a kid affected anyone else here.. disfellowshipping (and disassociation) have been part of my life for as long as i can remember.

  when i was six or seven, my dad, after opposing my mother's becoming a witness for several years, had a whirlwind flirtation with the organization and got baptized (as my mom put it, he was so disappointed that nothing special happened when he got baptized that he left the assembly at the lunch break).

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  patio34

  Tergiversator,

  Thanks for sharing your story with us.
  I'm glad you had the strength to stand up and do what you felt was right. There is enormous pressure to go along with it, as you know.

  How can this be called Christian? What about the blatantly false statement on the WTS site that says "disfellowshipping does not end family ties"?

  Cornerstone, I loved that 'you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube'!

  Patio
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  37

  Final Observations

  by Esmeralda in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm an observant person.

  i became that way back in what i call the 'wallflower years' of my life, when i could very easily blend into the woodwork of any room i walked into without anyone looking up.

  i became a student of human nature and watched how people interacted, and that study has come in handy at many points.. sometimes, though, i don't realize when i'm opening a can of worms.

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  patio34

  Sorry if this belittles someone's emotions, but isn't this making a mountain out of a molehill? I just spent 20 minutes reading this thread and I don't get what all the fuss is about. But when the talk is about 'feelings' it often is nebulous, to say the least.

  I guess it's not only a male trait not to want to listen to all this talk about 'feelings.' This is the last time I use my valuable morning (or any other) time on the subject of emotions.
  I like facts, articles, opinions, and mentally stimulating discussions!

  Patio
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  35

  Am I welcome too???...........

  by JW72 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, i just read esmerelda's post, i can see where she's coming from, being a new member, myself.. i understand, though, that people have already made friends and have their own little community, and that's fine.. i don't mind at all, i just hope that i can get people's attention by saying something that hasn't been said before...... i'm struggling though......... bye bye.

  chris

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  patio34

  Hey Waiting and Ginny!

  This is patio and I don't even know what to say about my meeting the harley guy or the diesel guy! Verry funny, though. M-m-m-m . . .

  I'm at a loss for words--it's late, just got the grandkids bathed and off to bed and I'm speechless.

  Patio