Posts by Bells

20

In Case You Had Any Doubts About Dinosaurs

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/15/tyrannosaurus-rex-really-was-a-ferocious-hunter-new-finding-confirms/.

nature red in tooth and claw.

if jehovah is the creator of all, he made some very vicious, nasty stuff.

Bells

wait what - they don't teach that dinosours were around in Noah's day right?

84

100 things I learned from watching "The Prodigal Son" DVD

by Perversion of a truth in

these are things that were said or insinuated, i start with the first 15.

enjoy!!.

1. working for a corporation in the city makes you fall out of the truth.. 2. if you become inactive or leave jehovah you will make your whole family sad and ruin everything.. 3. all worldly people cheat.. 4. all worldly people curse.. 5.

Bells

So when the movie was about over and the Prodigal son returns back home to his loving parents i assume, did he have to live in an out side shed for a year and do yard work or something all the while being shunned by his parents ??

No of course not!!! He went to a loving supporting JC, showed his repentance and was accepted back with love and joy, just like the Prodigal Son. You might be confused - this movie is based on a scripture - not the Watchtower teachings - 2 very different things!!!

I watched this movie on the weekend, I couldn't help myself. I think my mouth was open in shock for the whole length of the movie, I couldn't believe it! Will everyone get a copy of this? I'm just thinking, great, this is either going to give my in-laws false hope that maybe their son (i.e my husband) will return or reinforce the fact that I - the worldly girl he married - along with all of our worldly friends, are the main reason that he is no longer in the 'Truth'.

And what's with the mum - sorry - was it just me or is it normal for JW mums to be that totally pathetic!? All she did was cook, clean, beg, cry and hold onto her big strong husband for support at the thought of her sons 'death' i.e getting a job and moving out - at 21!!!!

And the big brother!? OMG what a total douche. Re Ace Ventura (classis by the way) "let me re-phrase that, I mean spiritually weak.

Seriously!? That guy reminds me of my brother in law. He would have to stay in the 'Truth' because he is such a boring douche bag that no one with a normal upbrining and social skills would be able to stand him, so he would never be able to make any friends outside. And how old was he anyway - and still living with mummy and daddy..??

And I love the bith at the start where they are still kids and shows 'Al' falling asleep (as I'd imagine many kids would have done before' - just to make sure you know - he has always been spiritually weak.

Sorry, I could go on and on, as someone who has never actually lived in the religion, I was absolutely gobsmacked by this movie.

B

90

Can this logic be refuted?

by notsurewheretogo in

i was an elder until march 2012 until i resigned.

i then stopped going to meetings in october 2012 and have enjoyed 9 months of freedom that i have found to be jouful!

i loved learning ttatt and sites like this and jwfacts.com have been excellent.. i told the elders that i needed a break and that they should not contact me unless it was a social visit and true to their word they have done that.

Bells

I remember asking a very similar question of a witness in regards to the whole blood and vaccinations doctrines.

The answer I got was something like 'it's a matter of obedience - so even if someone did die because they didn't take blood fractions / vaccinations, even if it wasn't necessary, they would be rewarded for their obedience and faith in Jehovah with resurrection and everlasting life.

I was stunned.

They totally missed the point - that if such critical doctrine - which is meant to come from the man himself via the holy spirit, could be so wrong that lives are lost and believing families suffer etc. as a result - then there has to be a question as to whether there is a Jehovah that can do this rewarding for obedience!!??

Its madness. It's all madness. If you mention 5 things in a row about witnesses to someone who hasn't dealt with them before - the reaction of the average 'normal' (if such a thing exists) person would be utter stunned gobsmacked shock.

For example: (1) they don't believe in blood transfusions - even if it means allowing their own children to die (but organ transplants are ok), (2) they don't celebrate birthdays or Christmas because of pagan origins (but wedding rings are fine), (3) they believe that listening to certain music / watching certain tv shows can invite DEMONS (yes people - demons!!!!) into their homes, (4) they don't believe in toasting or 'cheersing' - again, the pagan thing (5) they believe that humans have been here for less than 7000 years - and that all animals, yes, lions too, were originally vegitarian) (ok 6) they believe that the end of the world is juuuuuust around the corner (as it has been for the last 100 years) and (7) while I'm on a roll - they believe in the actual, literal flood. 2 of every animal for 40 days and 40 nights. Don't worry about what they all ate, or how the kangaroo managed to get all the way over to this island we now call Australia, with the emu and koala and a few of their other mates

And we could keep going.

The point is - there is NO reasoning with these people!!!! You may, possibly, maybe, succeed in helping to wake one of them up. Maybe. But you will almost certainly be disfellowshipped or marked as an apostate in the mean time. Be careful if this is what you want to avoid.

good luck !!

44

Newly wed UBM and soon to meet JW in-laws

by UBM101 in

i have been lurking here for a couple of years.

my hubby (inactive & some doubts) and i were just married and i'll be going to his place to meet his family (pretty much dubs).

they seem to be friendly and excited to meet me, and i kind of had agreed to attend the kingdumb hall meeting once (in my life time, yep, that's the agreement) and also meeting an elder who brain-washed my hubby during his teen.

Bells

Welcome and congratulations.

I am sort of in a similar place - I married my hubby a month ago, though we have been 'dating' as the Americans call it ;) for the last 12 years, so I've seen it all.

I feel for you however if your hubby is still even a little bit 'in'

My hubby decided that he was 'out' probably 15 years ago, however I have lost count of the number of times that things have happened where it is still so evident that there is still guilt, traces of mind and behaviour control etc. - the result of 15 years previous being raised in the cult.

Especially if the relationship with the family is still good (as my hubby's is) - like yours. Any criticism of the religion can feel to him like a criticism of his family - and in turn even himself. It has been a long and complicated - though ultimately very happy - road for us, and although I know that he is now well and truly out - there are still things that happen sometimes that make him instinctively react, or feel guilt etc. for reasons that he doesn't even understand.

I'm interested in how you guys married but you haven't met the family - did you elope? How long have you been dating? Did you 'live in sin'?

Also - be ready for ignorance - big time (their view of 'worldy people is at times just bizarre) and beware of 'theological warfare'... the answers you receive to any hard hitting questions may not be totally correct...

All the best, I really hope he wakes up and stays out - and I wish you the strength you may need at times to get through together in tact. But you can! :)

b

41

Disturbing WT quotes

by Christ Alone in

i wanted to start a thread about the most disturbing quotes that you all have found in watchtower publications.

i just came across this one when responding to another thread.

i'm sure there are many more disturbing quotes out there.

Bells

Bump

Keen to hear more quotes!

59

Music therapy for pain .. scientists on board or anyone .. any thoughts?

by talesin in

jw
friends

i am wondering if there is any research on this subject.. .

it's kind of obscure, i realize that.

playing my guitar takes me to a better place mentally, but does it produce oxytocin?

Bells

Talesin,

I would recommend getting into a pain clinic. I also had a 2 year wait (when I tried to get in and they told me 2 years - I cried and thought I won't be here if I have to wait 2 years! But here I am...)

I attended a pain clinic 12 years ago - and then again I'm at one now. There has been an incredible amount of progress in the past 10 years in regards to the understanding of pain - as you'd know, it is an incredibly complex issue.

I reckon that if music works for you, then that's great - doesn't matter whether there is evidence or not. Even if it's a placebo effect - who cares, if it helps you deal with pain, then it's real.

Obviously if you can avoid drugs, that's the way to go - and personally, I'd advise never to take narcs as a daily drug (unless elderly, then - why not) - only on occasion where the pain is serously significant. This way, you avoid the dependance / tolerance level increasing...

And I don't know what kind of pain you get, but for me - I find massage to be really beneficial. It doesn't help my actual pain (from the burns) but all of the other benefits just seem to help - better circulation so ulcers etc. will heal faster, help relieve sore muscles that have been thrown from walking with a limp, I also believe it helps with stress, depression etc. which as is well knows, makes existing pain feel worse.

Everyone's different, though I'd give it a go if you haven't. Has to be regular though - weekly or fortnightly at least - and by a proper trained therapist.

59

Music therapy for pain .. scientists on board or anyone .. any thoughts?

by talesin in

jw
friends

i am wondering if there is any research on this subject.. .

it's kind of obscure, i realize that.

playing my guitar takes me to a better place mentally, but does it produce oxytocin?

Bells

This is a bit of a personal topic for me... I'm 30 - I've had a combination of chronich - neuropathic and chronic / actue pain for most of my life due to severe - burns as a kid - but the last 10 or so years has been the worse. I went from being a fairly active person to someone who isn't able to walk more than a couple hundred metres at a time, let alone playing sport of any kind. Anyway - I've always listened to a lot of music and can believe that there is some theraputic benefits. Some music - especially if played too loudly can seriously make me a lot more aware of my pain at times, and other music may sometimes help to soothe a bit, I spose.

However - I have to say that it gets on my nerves a little bit when people get on their high horse about pain medication. Yes, obviously a life without medication is better - but hey - a life without pain is better yet - and that is not with in reach for many people. Over the years - I have been VERY open minded in trying to find an alternative to god-awful pain meds - such as: clinical psychology and hypnotysm, acupuncture, massage (I still get regular massage - it hel[ps, but isn't a cure), alcohol (doesn't help), weed (does help, but for me no better than being on any other med), irridology, physio, and however many other alternative therapies that I can't even remember the name of.

At the end of it all - I'm still in pain, and still have to take medication if I want to hold down a job. I could stop taking it - however I wouldn't be able to work and the only way to handle the pain would be to stay in - probably in bed most of the day. This would surely kill me quicker.

So here I am, now 30, been seeing my current pain clinic for 2 years now. The bottom line is - I probably want to have kids one day within the next few years, but this isi totally out of the question. I can't be pregnant on the meds for a start - and even if they said it was safe I wouldn't - and I am going to struggle with being 15kg heavier pregnant, let alone lack of sleep and getting up for night feeds when the baby comes. I now have to consider having my foot amputated, learning about prosthetics etc. and learning to re-walk, which is scary - but exciting if it means my pain is dramatically reduced... Then again - there's the risk of phantom pain, so I could lose my foot, have most of the pain anyway and still need to take drugs to control the nerves.

Or should I just stop worrying about it and go an put on some nice music...??? ;)

66

Yes the WT Told Millions of Youth NO COLLEGE!!

by JT in

jw
friends

*** watchtower september 1 1975 p.543 questions from readers *** .

how many years of secular education are advisable for children in christian households?

today, there are many teenage baptized servants of jehovah... how far should they go with a secular education?

Bells

This is an important issue. I think it's a worry that there are websites that defent JW's and blatantly publish incorrect facts, so any Witness who is having doubts and gets online may stumble across their sites and not delve deeper. Example:

From: http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/do-jehovahs-witnesses-really-forbid.html

Contrary to what many opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses may say, the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society has never discouraged education.

Among Jehovah's Witnesses are dedicated workers and professionals of every sort, including university professors, doctors and other medical professionals, lawyers, and scientists. Here is just one example where one Jehovah's Witnesses' college education is promoted: A Nuclear Scientist Tells His Story http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm

This is especially ridiculous because the scientist in this story got baptised well after he became a scientist. So in fact, had he joined the witnesses much ealier in his life, it is probable that he would not have become a scientist in the first place. Just another example of the WT picking and choosing and being incredibly hypocritcal. I just hope that anyone who comes across such sites actually researches further and doesn't just accept what they read without additional research and identifying the original sources of information (for example - Watchtower articles mentioned in this thread). When 'defenders' say that the WT has never said Witnesses should get higher education, it just makes them look stupid. Well, more stupid.

33

Were dinosaurs part of a pre-Adamic "paradise"?

by M.J. in

the wts seems to affirm a lot that adam's blunder really screwed up the earth, and that the earth was not meant to be this place full of killing, disease, death, pain, etc.. but according to the wts version of the story, did god create the earth with these types of features before adam even came on the scene?

the wts does not deny the existance of dinosaurs, who in their words were created prior to mankind during the 5th or 6th symbolic day-ages.

yet its clear from fossilized remains that dinosaurs killed each other, had a high mortality rate, often died young, suffered from disease such as cancerous tumors: .

Bells

Wait a sec...

So JW's really believe that all animals that existed before Adam - were vegetarian!? For real!? So T-Rex and everything?

Or have I misunderstood something...

I think it's a bit wierd that JW's don't teach that they should be vegetarian if this is the case... It seems another example of picking and choosing which parts to acknowledge and which parts to ignore. I get that they go with 'this is the world we live in now' or something, and probably compare it to obeying the human / government law, although they are really not part of this world.

But if they accept that vegetarianism is what J intended, but are ok to eat meat in this life, why can't the same principle be applied to say - homosexuality...? So 'we know that J did not intend for humans to be homosexual, however as a result of Adam's sin, things became imperfect. Some people will be born deformed - some people born as homosexuals - so it's ok to live like that and you will be 'fixed' when you get to paradise. You'll then be a perfect hetro vegetarian.

ps for the record - I do not consider homosexuality to be any kind of deformity - just in case anyone misses the point here.

24

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-24-2012 WT Study (DELIVER)

by blondie in

jw
friends

jehovah knows.

jehovah knows how to.

that jehovah:.

Bells

O.M.G

I think - for me personally - this teaching takes the cake. Even if I was studying and believing everything else I'd heard up until this - this would be the end of that belief!

Did they really compare fat and skinny people with different coloured hard to different species of animals!? What the hell!? I am flabbergasted.

Thanks Blondie - and I will take a bit of a look around and search for things on this site (sorry for being lazy - I knew you'd probably have something on hand - a wealth of knowledge!!) ;)

B