mustang

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Posts by mustang

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  24

  ...It` Sunday!...Why are`nt You at the Kingdom hall?!!...

  by OUTLAW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you horrible apostates have nothing better to do than enjoy your sundays and hate jehovah!

  !.....here you all are,at jwd..when you should be at the kingdom hall or out in the field service!.....everyone of you had one extra hour to get prepared to go to the kingdom hall..do you know who gave you that extra hour?..jehovah!

  !......you are all the devil`s disciple`s!..the son`s of satan!.....why are you enjoying the pleasures of "satan on sunday"?

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  mustang

  I had to go to the Halloween store and buy 50% off costumes ....

  But you'll be there next Sunday, right Mustang
• 
  24

  ...It` Sunday!...Why are`nt You at the Kingdom hall?!!...

  by OUTLAW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you horrible apostates have nothing better to do than enjoy your sundays and hate jehovah!

  !.....here you all are,at jwd..when you should be at the kingdom hall or out in the field service!.....everyone of you had one extra hour to get prepared to go to the kingdom hall..do you know who gave you that extra hour?..jehovah!

  !......you are all the devil`s disciple`s!..the son`s of satan!.....why are you enjoying the pleasures of "satan on sunday"?

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  mustang

  First, it would ruin my record of ~35 years of non-attendance. That's ~8840 weekly meetings, not including any assemblies.

  But second and more importantly, it would change my status altogether.

  I am currently a very peculiar and extinct form of Jehovah's Witness. I quit attending meetings, doing Field Service and so forth in 1974; in fact, my last meeting was the last meeting of 1974. I resolved to never go back.

  Further, beyond that simple resolution of not going back, it occurred that WTS took an evolutionary step in the 1980's. they changed the Baptismal Vows.

  You can look up any one of several essays that enumerate 5 or more different years of baptismal Vows. The purpose of all of these its to illustrate that WTS cut out the loopholes of the old practice of accepting a "generic Christian Baptism" as being acceptable.

  And further, the questions asked in the Baptismal Vows changed from essentially the same as those "generic Christian Baptisms" to being PLEDGES OF ALLEGIANCE to WTS. Consequently, my Baptism was not such a PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE to WTS.

  All fine and good: so what's the problem with going to a few meetings?

  My brother and I are having this discussion. He was involved in the legal "industry" at one time, before shifting to another career. He commented that 'our Baptisms were essentially the a "generic Christian Baptisms"'.

  So, I returned, 'we're not JW's?, not having been baptized as such'?

  He returned, 'the problem with that is the legal doctrine of Ratification'.

  (Yes, Law has "doctrines", just like a Religion).

  'And that means ...', I responded.

  "Ratification means that when they made the changeover and no longer accepted the "generic Christian Baptism" and required the new Vows, then any new JW's were Baptized under the new Vows. But the older memberships were transferred over to the newer format after some point of the older members 'going along with the program'. At that point, the older member Ratifies the changes. The older member has the option of suspending activity and by never continuing, he rejects the new rulings."

  "You mean that I haven't Ratified the early 80's changes? I quit going, no meetings, Field Service, talks, regular or irregular association, nothing".

  "Essentially, yes. Any future return to association will do the Ratification automatically. They have no requirement to inform you of these technicalities; you are expected to be cognizant of such matters without external coaching. So, many people have been caught up in this and never knew that they could 'opt out'; you successfully opted out".

  "Look it up in the Law Library or books; all it takes is a Law Dictionary; you will get the gist of it by the definitions. Some hunting through textbooks will get you an example. But the best example is either the passing of a new Law by a Legislative Body, or simply your latest Credit Card change of APR. The Law change can be found in History books or Political Commentaries, as well."

  "The Credit Card example is simple: you are paying 15%, but your November statement tells you that the rate will change to 18% on the first of January, next. You have a number of options: formally accept the change in writing, do nothing and accept the change without acknowledgment or continue paying off the old balance at the old rate and pay off the balance and quit altogether. The first two options accept the new rate, the second two do not accept the new rate. One of those is complicated by continuing to use the service, without a clean break."

  "Any use will invoke or Ratify the change?, I queried.

  "Yes, that is the principle of the Legal doctrine", was the reply.

  Well, inadvertently, I 'opted out' of the changeover. This makes me either a non-JW (a generic Christian, perhaps, a la my generic Christian Baptism) or some sort of "trapped in time" 1950's JW that doesn't exist any more.

  So, long story - long, you can see that I do not wish to endanger my unique status.

  This was not a one-liner, but you asked for it :)

  And this is certainly in the vein of WTS and their penchant for legalisms.

  Many here do not like heavy detail or legalism; that's tough and I've done as much "dumbing down" as I intend to. But when dealing with the Devil, you must consider the source and think as the Devil.

  Mustang
• 
  6

  What is your favorit hard mixed drink, tiss the season you know.

  by Cheetos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  redvodkatini:.

  type of drink is "cocktail".

  2 measures of vodka.

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  mustang

  I tried "7 & 7" when Travolta made it popluar in the disco era. Then I discoverd Seagrams VO and that Canadain whisky is Sooo smoooth. Blended whisky is good.

  I switched to "VO & 7" after that. Call drinks are more expensive than well drinks, so sometimes I will make it a "Canadian and 7". Once my drink got mixed up with a ladies drink at the table: she remarked 'this is good!! what is it ???!!"

  BTW, I've had Canadian whisky in Canada (VO, of course) and a Singapore Sling in Singapore (@ the "Long Bar" in the Raffles Hotel, of course). I don't like Scotch but the "moral imperative" there is .....

  Mustang
• 
  33

  How Jesus Returns?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if you believe that jesus returned invisibly, i'd like to know why you still cling to that wt dictate.. but my question is more for those who believe the return is yet to come.. according to scriptures, jesus appeared to many people after his resurrection, but the acension was not a "grand send off".. in acts it says that he will return in like manner.

  several scriptures say he will come in the clouds with great glory; that does not seem like the way he left, at least from what we have of scriptural infomation.

  do you think that all will see his coming, but that he will personally appear only to his followers?.

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  mustang

  So Jesus had a temper tantrum because the prices were too high?

  You still don't get it: lame animals were being sold. Only top line animals were to be used, because it was for God, not some stewpot. This was cheating God and saying you were great, parading your righteousness among men. It is one thing to charge stiff prices for Grade A, but for reject? And the poor were doing this because of sincerity of worship. The poor were willing to make the sacrifice, regardless of cost; but they should have been treated with respect, as well as God should have been respected.

  The high prices were just insult to injury: the point is the sacrilege.

  Does WT teach that Jesus was enraged because of dirty chicken feathers?

  The chicken thing was extra-Biblical. If I recall the explanations it was post-dated against the Bbile. It was never mentioned in the Bible, at all. I'm not at all sure that the chicken was even "clean" or acceptable as a sacrifice. Have you ever watched a chicken eat in a barnyard? A lot of what was considered acceptable in an animal had to do with their eating habits and "relative clenliness". Doves were the bird that I recall being acceptable.

  "sincerity of worship": this is something that you need to give deep consideration to. You find many of us here casting stones at JW's; but we still respect their sincerity of worship. We were there once; and we are generally somewhere in the "sincerity of worship" standard today, whatever that worship may consist of, now. I'm going to do a stretch here and say that even our Atheist posters are sincere in their worship (or lack thereof).

  You are missing great expanses of meaning here, whiolesale.

  Mustang
• 
  33

  How Jesus Returns?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if you believe that jesus returned invisibly, i'd like to know why you still cling to that wt dictate.. but my question is more for those who believe the return is yet to come.. according to scriptures, jesus appeared to many people after his resurrection, but the acension was not a "grand send off".. in acts it says that he will return in like manner.

  several scriptures say he will come in the clouds with great glory; that does not seem like the way he left, at least from what we have of scriptural infomation.

  do you think that all will see his coming, but that he will personally appear only to his followers?.

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  mustang

  First of all, Jesus opposed the blood sacrifices and what was being preached in the temples.

  Wrong: this was Judaic Law and it was the "type", precursor or the thing that came before the ultimate real goal. And Jesus' sacrifice was the ultimate, real goal; Jesus of course knew this. Jesus was the fulfillment of the animal sacrifices.

  The sacrifices were fine: the money changers selling lame animals at extortionate prices weren't.

  Is this totally true and correct in the long term of things? Unknown; but this is how a JW's think. That is from the digested study of the old yellow "Armageddon book" in the 50's. I sat through that in the B-Studies for months, at a single digit age.

  Jesus was considered a Teacher, effectively a Rabbi. When he entered the synagogue, he was expected to preach or speak; he asked for the scroll of Isaiah; he read the prophecy, remember? As such, he would have upheld the tradition of sacrifices.

  He was found in the temple area ass a child, discussing the law with the Rabbis. Good time to tell them off about the sacrifices, but I don't think so. He was being a good Jew, at that time.

  I'm very puzzled: where did you get that he was against the sacrifices? Not from any JW lore...

  This is just one of many points. NT is closer than you are, JW-wise.

  Mustang
• 
  44

  Whats the reason behind the name change of the Watchtower Society ?

  by Homerovah the Almighty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just read one of the wts.

  recent km and realized the the wts.

  the new name for the publishing corporation.

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  mustang

  Could it be that anything printed for the "flock" would be printed by the Christian Congregation of blah blah and anything printed for the "worldlies" would be printed by the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society (or is it Watchtower? or are there 2 separate entities there also?)

  All the printing in the USA is done by the Religious Order blah, blah group. That is where the voluntary labor comes in; and to reconcile the taxes, they ALL must have Vows of Poverty on file and receive the USC Title 26 mandated minimum stipend. That includes the maid that does the beds and spies on your dresser drawer.

  These records are subject to periodic review by government auditors: when you do a 501(c)3 filing (Non-Profit corporation, generally religious or charitable in nature) that could be worth billion$, you can bet your A$$ that the government will treat your accounting office with a revolving door effect.

  In contradistinction, the Xtian Congo must be a different entity or the WTS (I like the old designator) would have to DISTRIBUTE THE STIPEND ACROSS THE GREAT UNWASHED PEW SITTING RANK AND FILE. That's not going to happen, so you

  SPAWN ANOTHER LEGAL ENTITY THAT FIREWALLS THAT BACKDOOR CONTINGENCY.

  Then the Xtian Congo has its legal firewall effect with the ownership and management of the country-wide but local Real Estate assets. This has gone back and forth and I'm not certain what the latest strategic philosophy is on that.

  I recollect that there were other corporations besides these two, but I didn't get the gist of those.

  Mustang
• 
  24

  Arrogant and Unethical

  by TopHat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-30494372_itm.

  'arrogant and unethical': fannie mae to pay $400 million penalty.. .

  byline: robert manor .

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  mustang

  BA = Equal Opportunity

  Mustang
• 
  9

  Republicans and the "Redistribution of Wealth"

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  blah blah blah.

  http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html.

  that's what most posts say.

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  mustang

  I'm not going either way with this one; just LOL:

  Mustang
• 
  44

  Whats the reason behind the name change of the Watchtower Society ?

  by Homerovah the Almighty in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just read one of the wts.

  recent km and realized the the wts.

  the new name for the publishing corporation.

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  mustang

  What all are overlooking is the CHRISTIAN ORDER thing and the tax liability embarrassment of all those "unpaid volunteers". They are neatly explained IF you have a COMPLETELY SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY where everyone is required to take the VOW OF POVERTY. The VOP is in the Federal codes, USC Title 26, I believe. The stipend is set out there, in black and white, with a statute number.

  It is known as COMPARTMENTALIZATION.

  What else is a loose end of the mystery is the back and forth of the ownership of the KH's: local >> WTS >> local again?

  The fact that different countries have their laws and strange names for things is of little consequence to the comings and goings of the US TAXMAN. The WTS has never been one for such stringent insistence of standardized/unitized organization requirements from country to country as to cause this.

  WTS has long realized that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" works best when going from country to country. So these changes were to address US problems, not "feel good" worldwide unity issues.

  Mustang
• 
  31

  Where In Hades Is BurnTheShips?

  by snowbird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he is conspicuous by his absence.. i so enjoy his set-to's with bek, biz, sammieswife, and 6of9.. burn, where are you, amigo?.

  sylvia.

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  mustang

  Maybe BTS is heading for Singapore?

  Holland Village, where the ex-pats go

  Mustang