Posts by Liberty

127

Disrespect of the Bible

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

i am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.

i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.

notice the word "some".

Liberty

I'm not here to give you flack, I just enjoy the free market of ideas now available since I am no longer under the Watch Tower's control. I respect/disrespect the Bible in the same way that I do the Book of Mormon, Koran, or any other books which claim to be God's revealed Word. Each and every book which has people making such claims to their greatness should be subject to the most skeptical reviews if compared in the same realm as scientific conclusions. To the best of my knowledge, scientists who write books and propose theories do not claim that they are God's direct words and that disagreeing with these ideas will condemn us to death and/or eternal punishments.

Faith and science are mutually exclusive. Skeptics do not accept evolution because of faith but rather because of a preponderance of the evidence, if new evidence is presented then the theoretical paradigm must be changed to reflect this. Faith and religions are not changed by the rules of evidence. You do not yet understand scientific method because you are still steeped in the rules of faith and the JW religion. You cannot apply faith to science and you need to clarify in your own mind that you understand the scientific method before you can honestly discuss whether evolution or any other scientific conclusions are "wrong".

I am not trying to be a smart ass, I am just warning you that you are way out of your league because you have not educated yourself with the rules needed for such a debate. This is not your fault since the Watch Tower teaches that they provide their followers with the proper tools to prove that their religion is compatable with "real" science, however you already suspect that the Watch Tower leadership doesn't have a clue when it comes to teaching "truth". Keep this in mind always as you explore your new found freedom of thought. You are destined for a long and interesting journey of discovery.

23

Impromptu Survey - 2 Types of Reasons to Leave

by AdaMakawee in

jw
friends

i was thinking, not counting those who are df'd for "conduct," it seems to me that there are two type of exjws that leave.

by this i mean the ones that woke up and came to their senses while still inside.

1. those who found doctrinal errors and couldn't stay with the lies.. 2. those who found that there was no love and left because of the betrayal of emotions, and realization that by this fruit you knew they were not the ones, their lack of love.

Liberty

#1 and their complete lack of scientific understanding

Anti-theist

39

Do the JW's really and truly believe that the end is near?

by TooBad TooSad in

if the jw's really believe what the witchtower babble and trick society says about.

the end being so close, do their actions betray what they preach?

if you knew that your house.

Liberty

I don't blame the Rank & File JWs for being hypocrytical about the "END" being near as they are just following the leadership's example. The Watch Tower Society has played this game for years, they claim that the worldly governments will turn on religion, including the Watch Tower, and confiscate all the wealth and real estate and then these would be destroyed by ol'Jehoobie at the big "A", and yet the WT Society always has some Ten Year expansion and building plan in the works for their various facilities around the world. The two beliefs are incompatable. They can't use the excuse that these facilities would be used in the "New System" because as the property of Worldly governments these buildings would be as subject to destruction as the Pentagon or White House. A complete contradiction. No wonder the JWs are so bad at acting like they believe the "End" is near.

27

How did you think the GB made decisions?

by LearningMore in

i was just thinking about this today.

c of c opened my eyes on how the gb makes decisions.

i used to think that they must have prayed a lot together and then had moments of enlightenment from god.

Liberty

I too, like SirNose, believed just what the WT Society told us back in the late 1960's/70's, namely that all of the surviving 144,000 were mysteriously spirit guided as a communal telepathic force to provide the Watch Tower Society with leadership and biblical interpretation. I had not a clue how this worked but stupidly took them at their word. I know now, of coarse, that no such arrangement ever existed which makes sense since there was no method of communication between all the Anointed in place and the Anointed knew themselves that they were never consulted with by anyone/thing. It was just another Watch Tower lie. When I read Ray Franz's Crisis of Conscience I discovered for the first time how the Society was really run. Quite an eye opener.

23

Real Estate, Good Time To Buy?

by Indo_Dude in

jw
friends

is anyone else planning on buying in the near future?

with the bubble in real estate finally popping, when do you think prices will hit bottom?.

when my grandmother died, she left a small amount of money to me which will pay off my school loans, and leave me with some left over for a downpayment.

Liberty

No argument here sir82. We should always be cautious. However, the exact same style new sells in the same nieghborhood now for $224,900.00. we need a house and the price is right so I'll be happy to take even the $49,500 in equity. Even if values drop another 10% We'll still be ahead. I just brought up the tax value as a measure of where it could go in a few years.

No worries though if it doesn't, the house is well worth what we are paying for it to us and ultimately that is what matters. We can afford the payments and get a very nice nearly new house. If housing values start dropping by huge percentages then there will be other things happening which are more important to worry about.

I still think if you have the money, a stable job, and can qualify for a loan now is a great time to buy, especially if you can get a foreclosure in good shape.

23

Real Estate, Good Time To Buy?

by Indo_Dude in

jw
friends

is anyone else planning on buying in the near future?

with the bubble in real estate finally popping, when do you think prices will hit bottom?.

when my grandmother died, she left a small amount of money to me which will pay off my school loans, and leave me with some left over for a downpayment.

Liberty

Look for a foreclosure. We just bought a house which just last year was tax valued for $228,300.00 for just $175,400.00. The interest rates are pretty reasonable too. When else can you get $52,900.00 in equity before your first mortgage payment is even made? Even if the market continued to fall it would take a lot of dropping to erase that much equity. In just a few years I think things will be back on the way up even if very slowly. If you can afford it and can get a great deal now is a great time to buy.

21

Doublethink examples of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Mr Ben in

jw's are experts in what orwell called doublethink.

we often say that on this board.

here are a couple of doublethink examples:.

Liberty

Back when Fred Franz was the main JW Guru he held two very clear cut contradictory view points as true at the same time. The Watch Tower Society (really Franz) promoted the idea that the surviving 144000 anointed were in direct contact with Jehovah's active spirit and were able to communally and mysteriously run the Watch Tower Society and provide "light" in the form of Bible interpretations and dogma for all non-anointed JWs while at the same time knowing full well that the W.T. Society had always been run by one or two all-powerful men who made all the policy decisions without ever consulting with the other members of the far-flung anointed (who in reality had never had any authority or any means to establish any form of authority what-so-ever). Franz knew this to be a complete contradiction since he himself was one of the two only real authority figures at that time and had worked directly under the others in earlier times.

Secondly, Franz himself created the notion of a Governing Body who needed to be in control of the Society while at the same time claiming that an inspired individual like a Watch Tower President or the Apostle Paul had every right Biblically to work outside the authority of the Governing Body even contradicting it.

Complete lunacy!

68

What's the dumbest thing you've ever heard a JW say?

by Renegade in

jw
friends

alot of you maybe stuck for choice so you can say as many as you want.

Liberty

"This wicked old system can't possibly last another 5 years!" said in all seriousness by many JWs and heard by me on numerous occassions around 1970. Now almost 40 years ago!

By the way, just one of many stupid things JWs say.

54

Finding Faith

by Ima Apostate in

how many of you ex-jw kids were able to believe in mainstream christianity after leaving the borg?

within the last year, i have opened up to getting to know god again.

what's funny is that when i prayed for truth and to know god, i knew and had a real feeling in my heart that i was getting closer to something real, but there was still a voice going, "hey, it's me jehovah, and you have rejected me!".

Liberty

The argument Shazard uses stating that science and reason is just another rigid religion that people put faith in is pure nonsense. Richard Dawkins will not shun me if I disagree with one of his theories, nor would Carl Sagon's ghost condemn me to death because I didn't watch Cosmos or read one of his books. The scientific/humanist establishment allows you as an individual to believe anything you want. My Paleontology Professor at a major University didn't believe that dinosaurs evolved into birds which is a major departure from 98% of what other Paleontologists believe but he was still invited to their functions and conventions and submitted papers without any reprucussions because he backed up his oddball theories with evidence.

In science, if you have enough convincing evidence you can overturn any established principle. It happens all the time. Religion and science are nothing alike and reason is the exact opposite of faith.

39

Awake 1980- Movie "The Exorcist 1+2 will cause demonic attacks and murders!

by Witness 007 in

awake 1980 had a mission.

attack these two movies!

voted: "the scariest movie of all time," this is what was said about "the exorcist" and the sequel.. awake 1980 12/8 p.11 "since the release of "the exorcist some years ago, many reports are on file of the adverse effects it had on many who saw it.

Liberty

I was terrified of seeing "The Exorcist" because of all the JW hype about it and how demons would sit next to you in the theatre etc.. Years later I got up the courage to watch it and found the special effects and the plot laughable. Now I live in the 21st century and realize that demons are not real and that movies made of film cannot conjure the powers of evil. The Watch Tower is 500 years behind and their followers are encouraged to believe complete nonsense long ago disproven by reason and science.