Posts by Liberty

7

Is the bible God's Word?

by WTLies in

i posted this in "friends" forum:.

author topic: is the bible god's word?

read 2 timesbe the 1st to rate this threadwtlies.

The Bible cannot be the word of God because it is illogical, untrue, and controdictory. The fact that anyone would be killed for having sex is just insane. Even if I tried to justify such harshness by bringing up protection from illness or to prevent unwanted children it doesn't make sense. Eating is a natural desire like sex and if I get unlucky and eat the wrong thing I can also become ill or even die yet eating is not punishable by death. Does the "horror" of having a baby really justify prevention to the extreem of killing any potential parents just in case someone might become pregnant? This is especially silly today when there are many methods of preventing pregnancy. Do two lives have to be sacrificed in order to prevent 1 bastard?

Such punishments are doubly irrational considering God supposidly created us to have these hard to control desires in the first place. If sex is so bad as to warrant death why not give us an alternate reproductive method? A loving intelligent super being would never demand such harsh punishments based on hard to control instincts. Should puppies have stones thrown at them until they die because they pee on the floor? The Bible is obviously man made since only irrational men could come up with such silly stories and sadistic punishments for minor and mostly harmless laspses in control. Why is sex a "willfull sin" at all? Why not drinking water on Tuesdays or having corn in your BM too. These could be justified as harmful sins if we put our minds to it. The water might make us sick or the unchewed corn is a sign of gross laziness and glutoney. We need harsh punishments to prevent these dangerous willfull acts.

Edited by - Liberty on 29 August 2002 11:33:41

37

Properly Understanding Genesis 3:14

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

it was satan that was cursed, not the snake!

if it was satan then that the "curse" of genesis 3:14 applied to rather than the serpent, then how is it that satan has had to live his life since that day as if having to go upon his belly and eat dust?

the answer is arrived at by first considering the lowly state of this somewhat pitiful creature called the "serpent".

Liberty

Sorry Yadirf but you are full of Watchtower BS. Satan is hardly given a mention at all in the OT of the Bible. As has been pointed out already there is NO mention of him anywhere in the "Fall' story of Genesis. You are trying to make sense of nonsense. This is obviously a story told by ancient people to try and explain why evil entered the world, why humans get sick and die, and why snakes have no legs. It is a myth like Pandora's Box, not literal reality. If it is so essential that we understand Satan's nature why didn't God clearly point out the problem instead of hiding it behind this silly story with an animal substituted for the Devil? You need to read your Bible and you will quickly see it is nonsense and fairy tales devoid of deep meaning. By the way, if you would study some biology you would find that many snakes still have vestial and visible rear legs used in breeding and in nearly all snake's pelvic girdles have vestial leg bones which are reduced and no longer visible from the outside. Snakes once had legs but EVOLVED to reduce them because they hunted their prey in narrow tunnles where legs became a hinderance. In short, you don't know what you are talking about.

Edited by - Liberty on 29 August 2002 9:28:42

Edited by - Liberty on 29 August 2002 9:58:2

11

Michael Jackson Was Visited By The Brothers!!!

by Mister 8iggs in

jw
friends

Liberty

SO TRUE!! and very funny. I love the art work. MJ is a perfect example of what living in JW lala land can do to a child's development and have effects for the rest of its life.

4

Why did I really leave?

by tdogg in

jw
friends

so i was working alone the other day and my mind wandered back into the past.

there are things that we do that we do not understand untill years later.

i read about the heroic efforts some make to leave the jw's and i read about the noble reasons that many have for leaving.

Liberty

Hi Tdogg,

You really left because you couldn't stomach the hypocracy whether you give yourself credit for this or not. The Society would love for JWs to think that most left "to satisfy their selfish bestial desires" but the fact is that sex sins are the least likely things to get you in real trouble with the Society. Your story about how easy it was for your fellow sex offenders to get reinstated proves that! If it's just about weakness/lack of control you will get a warm welcome back if you tow the party line. Ex-JWs are mostly people who were sick of the lies and playing the games and are not sexual deviants maniacly demonized into hating Jehovah despite what the Society says. It's easy to be a middle of the road moral midget and remain a JW in good standing but if you are smart enough or care enough to be true to yourself you are already on your way out. Give yourself some credit you saw through the BS and that's really why you left not because you needed sex. Sex is everywhere in WT land it just comes with irrationality and pointless guilt.

21

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR HOPE?

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the major reasons people get attracted to the jw's is because of their new found "hope".

if you are disillusioned or are no longer a jw , do you feel that you still have hope?

or are you unsure, now, about alot of things?

Liberty

If a hope is totally unrealizable then it is just foolishness, perhaps even boardering on the insane. If I hope to become supreme master of the World able to control all people and resources in pursuit of my own desires then this is a false hope because all evidence indicates it will never happen. Being a JW presents a hope much the same. We convinced ourselves, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that we would never grow old and die and that an imaginary invisible super being will kill 99.9% of the human population and give only us the Earth and all its resources forever.

Even the very small chance that I can become a millionare by winning the lottery is much more real because we have evidence many times a year that this can happen. Becoming a rock star, movie star, sports star, inventor, or business tycoon have similar odds to the lottery but we have abundant evidence that all of these hopes are at least realizable. So far God has never kept people from growing old, nor has He destroyed the World and the only evidence sited for such "hopes" is from an old book which must be interpreted by men who claim God speaks through them and yet provide no evidence that such is the case.

In short, I was temporarely insane when I held this hope and can't now ,for the life of me, even understand why I ever believed in such utter nonsense. This hope is gone. I say great! It was a foolish hope derived from nothing but the insane ravings of madmen. I can stop wasting my time wishing for something that will never come and devote my energy to little hopes that are at least possible. Maybe a nice loving mate, some children, and a comfortable life. These are all any of us can really hope for but at least there is abundant evidence that these things do sometimes happen. Turning into Superman or being a JW who survives Armageddon have about the same odds of happening according to the best evidence I've seen. So I think hard about that when laughing at the village idiot who runs around town in his towel cape trying to fly. I was that idiot once upon a time.

13

The Organization -An Enemy or Friend

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i would like to ask you for your collective help:.

i am in the process of attending a judicial committee meeting with three elders because of my "speaking" of "apostate" ideas in the congregation.

they have made responses to some of my thoughts but i can't make a reply in turn.

Liberty

If your stock broker told you to buy Enron stock because God told him it was a sure thing but then after it goes belly up and you lose your money he said, "well it was your fault for reading too much into my suggestion. Afterall, I'm only human!" and then a couple of weeks later he says you should invest in Worldcom because God says it is a sure thing this time and when this one goes belly up and you complain he threatens to shun you would you consider him to be your friend?

I listened to the Organization and lost parts of my life I'll never get back because they told me about a "sure thing" investment promised by Jehover himself. They are not my friends as they have proven to be liars everytime and it cost me parts of my life and I got nothing I was ever promised. Me and millions of others. An honest religion or stock broker says up front , "this is a gamble because we only have limited information so be careful and be preparred to lose your investment if we are wrong about this." This person could be my friend but not a liar like the Watchtower Society who said that they had the insider info from God himself that it was a sure thing.

14

Hollywood Therapy

by Cicatrix in

okay,hittin the wall now.the downs are more common than the up days at this early point.i read about post cult trauma syndrome, so i understand now why i feel numb, then angry,then weepy all in a nanosecond, like i'm gazing out of a fishbowl at a distorted world,why i'm having nightmares about congregation members.why my brain feels like a fried egg.why i want to run back to the only life i've known for 20 years, even though the thought of stepping foot inside of a kingdom hall causes me to panic.. sooo, can anyone recommend any good movies to rent to help me process some of this?.

i watched matrix twice,after i saw it mentioned on the discussion board.wow!how chilling.it's funny-i watched this movie while still a wavering dub and it disturbed me.now i know why.. i also like chocolat, the scarlet letter (i'm sending my da letter in a red envelope hehe), and the wall(plan to rent this again ).. i'm reading 1984.. i know i probably shouldn't be so focused on this-i need to start getting out there and finding the positive,and some days i manage to do that, but right now i seem to have a need to try and make sense of it all.. any more suggestions?.

cicatrix.

Liberty

Always keep in mind that you are not alone in your fears and feelings as all of us ex-Dubs know what you are going through. Even after we discovered that we no longer could be associated with the Watchtower Society we held on to our beliefs and guilt about Armageddon, demons, the killer god Jehover, sin, salvation, the Bible and a whole host of things that gave our world meaning while at the same time terrifying us. You must experiance the truth about the reality of these things on your own. Looking at the world from another point of view will help you formulate a new Cosmology without relying on the Society . They want you to feel alone and to be frightened with only their world view so you will come back to them. Be sure you have built a vantage point from which to view your real options before making any more choices. Despite what they say you do have real options and other choices.

14

Hollywood Therapy

by Cicatrix in

okay,hittin the wall now.the downs are more common than the up days at this early point.i read about post cult trauma syndrome, so i understand now why i feel numb, then angry,then weepy all in a nanosecond, like i'm gazing out of a fishbowl at a distorted world,why i'm having nightmares about congregation members.why my brain feels like a fried egg.why i want to run back to the only life i've known for 20 years, even though the thought of stepping foot inside of a kingdom hall causes me to panic.. sooo, can anyone recommend any good movies to rent to help me process some of this?.

i watched matrix twice,after i saw it mentioned on the discussion board.wow!how chilling.it's funny-i watched this movie while still a wavering dub and it disturbed me.now i know why.. i also like chocolat, the scarlet letter (i'm sending my da letter in a red envelope hehe), and the wall(plan to rent this again ).. i'm reading 1984.. i know i probably shouldn't be so focused on this-i need to start getting out there and finding the positive,and some days i manage to do that, but right now i seem to have a need to try and make sense of it all.. any more suggestions?.

cicatrix.

Liberty

Hi Cicatrix,

You are suffering because you have been terrorized for years by the Watchtower Society. They depend on emotion to control you so you need to counter this with cold hard logic. You are on the right track watching movies about free thinking and awakening from thought control. Reading 1984 is a great healing experiance as well. I would also highly recommend a crash course in science whether on your own or at a university/college.

The Watchtower hates science so this should give you a clue as to how important it is to your recovery by replacing emotion and superstition with logic and reality. Carl Sagan was a great science writer for the non scientist. Watch his Cosmos series and then read his books. After some Sagan and a basic knowledge of scientific method you can attempt some Stephen J.Gould. You must create a new Cosmology to replace the bogus world view imposed upon you by the Society. In the real world the prevailing Cosmology of science and reason will melt away the superstition and ignorance which allows the Watchtower to control you.

You need a whole new world view to fully escape the power of the Tower and science and reason are the foundations of this new Cosmology. As you understand science and reason all your fears and subconscious turmoil can be delt with openly, honestly, and many will just fade away. What is terrifying now will become silly and irrelavant. Ask yourself , why does the Society demonize science, idependant thinking, evolution, higher learning, and observing things and coming to your own conclusions? The answer is clear, because it deminishes their power over their victims who are trapped in the Watchtower's complex and twisted self serving world view, JW Cosmology.

Edited by - Liberty on 20 August 2002 10:22:34

38

Try this poll one last time.

by Bleep in

poll#2.

since the last poll was trolled by some people lets do this one more time.

what is god?

Liberty

Choice #5. By the way, it doesn't matter how much you may study a book if it is nonsense. Just because a book says something doesn't mean it's true. I love the circular reasoning that the Bible is God's true inspired word because the Bible says it is. If I write a book that says I'm God and you should hand over everything to me because I say so in my book does this become true also? I'll need some better evidence than " because some old book says so" before I can acknowledge God's reality.

Edited by - Liberty on 15 August 2002 15:48:9

43

ARE YOU UPSET THAT YOU DIDN"T GO TO COLLEGE?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i have read of some people's bitterness because they were denied the opportunity to go to college.

during the 60's and 70's the society really discouraged any education other than what was necessary.

since the end was so near, especially around 1975, anybody that decided to go to "higher education" was considered very weak and unbalanced.

Liberty

You said it well Gary B. Children raised as JWs are simply never prepared for the harsh realities of life period! Not going to college is just one of many crippling handicaps a JW must struggle with in the real world. Thinking the World will end at any moment has a profound effect on a developing child's psychology. We old timers who grew up as JWs before the 80's got an extra dose of this as is evidenced by the younger folks here who were raised in the more cynical post '75 era. The dogma was backed off a little and JWs became a little more practical especially since the "1914 generation" policy was changed in '95. There is still damage being done however.