Posts by MeanMrMustard

10

JW's kick apostate son out of home - then he became a terrorist

by The Fall Guy in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-51049853.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31987242.

Were You Willing To Die For Jehovah?

by minimus in

jw
friends

we were supposed to be dedicated unconditionally to jehovah god.

we were willing to be persecuted to the death if need be.

if it came to taking a blood transfusion or dying, we were loyal to jehovah and would be a martyr for god.

MeanMrMustard

@min: I have a sneaky suspicion that 80-90% of JWs are nominal.

54

Adam could have put Jehovah In Paradox!

by JohnTron72 in

i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!

i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?

" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?

MeanMrMustard

Getting into the Biblical speculation (for shirts and giggles):

Does the Bible say how long Adam went without his Eve? I don’t recall a number ... why couldn’t he have gone womanless for hundreds of thousands of years? Does the Bible say how long they were together in the garden?

Yeah, I know Genesis talks about the creative “days”, but hell, even the WT regards those as metaphorical days, consisting of undetermined amounts of time.

Maybe Eve was a nag, and a few thousand years into it :

54

Adam could have put Jehovah In Paradox!

by JohnTron72 in

i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!

i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?

" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?

MeanMrMustard

If you were God and gave man and woman everything to the eye on Earth freely, how would you know they truly were appricitive of the gift?

If I were God, then I would know everything, by definition. I would be omniscient. I would absolutely know, necessarily.

54

Adam could have put Jehovah In Paradox!

by JohnTron72 in

i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!

i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?

" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?

MeanMrMustard

Some of this may have already been mentioned. But assuming, first, that the account of history written in Genesis is true, and also assuming we all buy into that, then:

...from careful study of the scriptures I've found a loophole that even Adam who was perfect at the time missed!

It would give any elder a massive erection to think they could best God by acting like a lawyer.

I'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"Can God create a Rock he can't lift?" And if he can't create one he can't lift, then God cannot do everything"

Yeah, but it’s not really a conundrum. Omnipotence doesn’t include the ability to declare logical contradictions as rational. Other forms of this problem include: Can God create a married bachelor? Can God create a being greater than himself and then worship it? The answer to all of these has always been “no”. But that doesn’t have much to do with omnipotence. Nobody ever claimed that God can do “everything”, including nonsense.

Well that doesn't really matter since we know Jehovah says himself he cannot lie right? Sure he could lie but, he chooses not to right?

I thought that, theologically, he couldn’t choose to lie any more than you could choose to grow wings and fly. God has been defined as unable to lie. I think they would say that “it is not in his nature”.

He also chooses to not turn back faults in time or even look ahead to see if something he created ( like the angels, Satan, Man will one day stumble) Right?

That is JW theology. All the other folks out there think God saw the fall of man coming a mile away, even before creation, because he is omniscient. But assuming JW theology now...

Well here's a Paradox that could have happened where Adam could have still been Alive to this day! Sure, we all know that Satan used his position to throw a wrench in Jehovah's Cogwheel of plans for all creation but, did you know Adam could have at one moment in time have even bested Satan and actually been the only one who could have made Jehovah's words prove false!!?

*popcorn sounds*

Here is what Adam could have done!..Remember how Adam also ate from the tree of Knowledge and Jehovah told him "Did you not remember my saying upon eating of the fruit, from that day you will surely die?"

Just another insertion here: it was a serious mindfork when I started looking into mainstream Christian theology. They don’t define “die” in this context the way the WT does. To die is more of a “separation” rather than a loss of conscious thought, or ceasing to exist. But anyway, since we are assuming WT theology here...

Well, [snip for length] HOW SO??

Even assuming JW theology, I don’t think this works. In JW theology, God doesn’t actually know the future unless he chooses to look. And you are saying he chose to look and told Adam what would happen, giving Adam a chance to stick it to God. You are also assuming Adam understood the prophecy, because it wasn’t exactly straightforward. And I’m not quite sure JW theology asserts that Adam understood God’s words, especially in such detail so as to form a legal plan of attack against the almighty. But let’s assume Adam understood those cryptic words the same way you want him to. I’m still not sure you have a problem for God. You might, but maybe not. I think it would all hinge on you making the case that JW theology is a fatalistic theology.

It seems to me that a more generic form of your question is “Does divine foreknowledge imply a loss of free will?” Or “Does divine foreknowledge cause the event to occur?” So when Jesus told Peter that he would deny him three times, does that mean that the cause of Peter’s denying was the prophecy itself? Was it his “fate”? If you think JWs are fatalistic, then you might have something. But honestly, I don’t know the official stance of JWs on fatalism.

You can hold that Adam could choose another path, as Peter could have. But if that choice was made, then the prediction would have been different and not the cause of the resultant outcome.

So, there is the Paradox everyone, at that one moment 6,000 years ago Adam had the ability to have stuck it to Jehovah even more so than Satan.

As mentioned, there are a lot of hurdles here.

If Adam had given some thought to it with his perfect mind, Jehovah would have had to do Man's bidding or his word would have became a lie! "

At this point, any elder reading this has a fully form pants tent.

54

Adam could have put Jehovah In Paradox!

by JohnTron72 in

i'm going to be the first and throw this out there for others but, from careful study of the scriptures i've found a loophole that even adam who was perfect at the time missed!

i'm sure everyone has heard the conundrum about ,"can god create a rock he can't lift?

" and if he can't create one he can't lift, then god cannot do everything" well that doesn't really matter since we know jehovah says himself he cannot lie right?

MeanMrMustard

The real question is: Did Adam and Eve pray properly before engaging in sexual relations?

”Dear Lord and God who hath smote us out the garden for our silliness: please bless this massive pounding Eve is about to get.... Amen”

58

What Will Happen To President Trump In Your Opinion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

he has been “impeached “.

will he be convicted in the senate?

is he so “damaged goods” that he is ineffectual?

MeanMrMustard

Trump is impeached and not impeached at the same time. #SchrödingersImpeachment

58

What Will Happen To President Trump In Your Opinion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

he has been “impeached “.

will he be convicted in the senate?

is he so “damaged goods” that he is ineffectual?

MeanMrMustard

Trump lied to us.

He said we would get tired of winning.

16

Does Anyone Elses PIMI Family Do A "Not Christmas" Day?

by pale.emperor in

i was told today that my jw family had a massive family gathering with presents exchanged, drinks and a big roast dinner.

they even wore paper hats.. the day they chose for this family day?.

26th december.. totally not christmas or anything - honest.. does anyone elses family do that?

MeanMrMustard

39

Is it possible to nullify a baptism?

by idk123 in

hope you are all well,.

i was wondering within the organisation if there are any guidelines or grounds for nullifying a baptism.

see i grew up a jehovah's witness and was baptised at age 13, i didn't get baptised for the right reasons, i felt pressured to because my friends were getting baptised at the same time.

MeanMrMustard

You are dealing with a highly legalistic organization. Don’t try to beat them at their own game. Just don’t even waste the effort.

It’s tempting to think about walking into an elders room and saying, “Well guys, according to section 3, subsection VI, of chapter 9, <insert legal loophole here>. So based on that, I’m just going to walk away and everyone will be accepting of that decision.” And all the elders turn to one another and go “Ohhh, subsection VI! I totally forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. We’re OK now.”

It was a mistake. You may have been a kid when you were baptized. But it doesn’t matter now. You are an adult, and can decide now to nullify your baptism - “Dear Elders, It has come to my attention that the WTB&TS is full of what some might call bovine excrement. I am no longer a JW. Thanks.”

Your family are also adults and can decide to cut ties with you. That’s a decision they make. Don’t push off their moral agency on something else. It is their, really, their decision. In my case, I confronted my family (kindly) and let them know that it is their decision, and I wouldn’t accept an explanation in which they attempted to shrug that agency off on an organization.

Some shun me, some don’t. Maybe they will come around, maybe they won’t. It is what it is...