Posts by ABibleStudent

17

Why is shunning NOT a violation of Nat'l and Int'l law?

by Zoos in

i was looking at the universal declaration of human rights posted at un.org and also the description of what constitutes a violation of religious freedom at uslegal.com .. .

according to the declaration of human rights:.

article 18.. everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

ABibleStudent

Guiding principles and laws of governance are for governments to comply with and are not applied to organizations such as religions by governments.

I would be very happy if governments would established basic rules that non-profit and charitable organizations must follow to receive government support and tax exemptions, and tax deductions for donors. I would like non-profit and charitable organizations be required to promote non-discrimation, which would prohibit using shunning/marking/not associating; reporting violent felony crimes to local law enforcement; and provide a service that benefits individuals/society and which the government does not provide.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

22

Trolleys everywhere in my neck of the woods

by KateWild in

i went to an appointment today and what do you know a trolley.. i couldn't stop and chat, but i have another appoinment thursday, i will go early and have a chat.

i love this it's great fun chatting to jws whilst being df'd.. any ideas for my presentation?.

do you think i am harming myself?.

ABibleStudent

KateWild - Abiblestudent - Good question, I might use it, but I think they might be offended. What do you think?

Hi KateWild, Yes, they may be offended, but you would also be giving them an opportunity to attempt to prove that the WTBTS is not like the Pharisees and Sadducees if you use an inquisitive tone of voice and smile.

It is a segue question to talk about charateristics of dangerous cults without calling the WTBTS a dangerous cult. If a JW cannot differentiate between how the Pharisees and Sadducess behaved and how the WTBTS behave using characteristics in MT 23 (in context with Steve Hassan's BITE control definitions) and how those characteristics are contrary to MT 22:34-40, then you could ask s/he, "Why do you follow the teachings of the WTBTS instead of Jesus Christ's teachings and example? Aren't you a Christian? Have you visited the website www.freedomofmind.com to learn more about BITE cntrol methods, undue influence, and unhealthy influence by some organizations?" Seeds of doubt planted and hopefully no argumentative debates occurred, because you only asked simple questions and the JWs did most of the talking.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Roberrt

22

Trolleys everywhere in my neck of the woods

by KateWild in

i went to an appointment today and what do you know a trolley.. i couldn't stop and chat, but i have another appoinment thursday, i will go early and have a chat.

i love this it's great fun chatting to jws whilst being df'd.. any ideas for my presentation?.

do you think i am harming myself?.

ABibleStudent

Hi KateWild, If you are already Df'ed and you know TTATT, how would you being harming yourself? Isn't stoning against the law in the U.K.?

Instead of presenting information to JWs, how about asking them simple questions instead? How about asking JWs how the WTBTS is different from the Pharisees and Sadducees? I would read MT 22:34-40 and MT 23 and Steve Hassan's books to ask JWs simple questions to plant seeds of doubts about following the WTBTS instead of following the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ.

How can a JW justify following the WTBTS when God's greatist commandment says to Love God with "all" your heart, mind, and soul and not an organization or religious leaders? God's second greatist commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. If a JW wouldn't like to be shunned, how can they shun other JWs?

Where did Jesus Christ say to shun or not associate with non-JWs in the Bible? If Jesus Christ believed in shunning and not associating with devils, John 6:60-70 would have been a good place for him to warn christians. So, why didn't he?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

42

What did Jesus really mean, when he said he had made his Father's name known?

by Faithful Witness in

i am preparing for my meeting this friday with miss k. we are reviewing the bible teach book, and she is looking forward to "showing me some things about the divine name.

" i don't know what she might pull out of her hat this time... but that section of the teach book is so completely assanine, i don't even know what to say.

) what did jesus mean when he said that to his father?.

ABibleStudent

NIV MT 23:23-24

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Hi Faithful Witness, As you wrote about in your post, your solution to overcome Miss K's tactics is to read scriptures around her cherry-picked verses to understand the context of those verses. It would slow her down and therefore keep her off-balanced, and allow you to ask simple questions to hopefully reach her authentic persona. If she protests about you wanting to understand scriptures in context, you could recite MT 23:23-24 to her or Acts 17:11. Also, if you read MT 23 from Steve Hassan's perspective about dangerous cults, it almost reads like a description of dangerous cults.

Unfortunately Miss K probably is on a convention high this week and is full of WTBTS programming, so I would cancel meeting with her for several weeks. It usually takes several weeks for a JW's authentic persona to re-assert itself after a DC or assembly.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

P.S. - I hope that you had a great vacation on the island.

9

I just noticed this tactic

by problemaddict in

in reading terrys latest post, if made me think of something that exists and many of us have experienced but i have not really put into a logical thoughts process before.

in terrys 4 facts everyone should know about jw's, the second one referrs to the walsh trial where unity is said to be more important than truth, in no uncertain terms.. this made me think about how one would bring up this fact.

my mind wandered to the beginning of my fade, when inevitably, many of us open up our mouths and say too much.

ABibleStudent

Hi problemaddict, Have you asked JWs questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed.

How do you feel that "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs would respond to you saying, "Someone told me that in the Walsh trail the president of the WTBTS said . . . I want to disprove it, but I do not know how to. How would you independently research something like buying a car/TV/house? . . . How would you research this?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

58

Does WT use intellectual intimidation in publications?

by KateWild in

when i first learned ttatt, i read loads all at once and tried to absorb everything.

then i slowed down evaluated my priorities and took one step at time.

now my kids know ttatt and i have set some goals in life, i am ready to take on my next project in my deprogramming.. intellectual intimidation.

ABibleStudent

Hi KateWild, Is Steve Hassan's "unhealth inluence" the same as intellectual intimidation? According to Steve Hassan, unhealth influence is used to unduly influence people. How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

24

GUILT TRIPS AND EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL!!!

by DATA-DOG in

all hell has broken loose at my house!

the wife is pissed [ i did not turn in the "voluntary tithe" slip .

if she doesn't go, then she cannot do x event tomorrow.

ABibleStudent

Hi DATA-DOG, I'm sorry for your wife's cognitive dissonance and its affect on you and your child.

Have you read The Psychology of Guilt Overcoming Types of Guilt? I prefer recommending Steve Hassan's vidoes and methods on www.freedomofmind.com and books, but maybe the aforementioned webpage might help you, because it does not use the word cult.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

23

I dont think we should past judgement on people who post here for the first time

by smiddy in

jw
friends

just saying , my 2 cents worth .

if they have an agenda it will be revealed in a short time , let them play it out .. however , some genuine first posters can be put off by somebody jumping the gun and attacking them .. please give the first posters time to get to know this site.. smiddy.

ABibleStudent

Agree!

It is better to be respectful and friendly to everyone and ask clarifying questions if suspicious of another's motives, rather than being disrespectful. If this is suppose to be a support forum, then IMHO labeling posters as trolls, writing B.S., or lurkers is counter-productive. Let other readers make up their own minds about what a poster is or is not without labeling them, as a JW would do to protect their "Spirituality" (status in the WTBTS).

I would feel badly if my actions caused a "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) JW to abandon their independent research and run back to the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

ABibleStudent

Welcome jnjburkett, As long as you continue your Bible Studies (indoctrination sessions), your JW friends will continue to associate with you. If you start to ask too many difficult questions of them, your JW bible conductor and JW friends will either stop visiting with you or start to use unhealthy influence techniques to unduly influence you. If you want unconditional friendships, go meet non-JWs. The WTBTS indoctinates JWs to only conditionally love people, including their family members.

Before continuing your Bible Studies (indoctrination sessions) with a JW, independently research the WTBTS as much as you can by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com and www.freedomodmind.com. After you are baptized a JW, you will be considered "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) if you start to independently research the WTBTS, which is an example of an unhealthy influence technique that the WTBTS teaches JWs.

If you want to learn more about unhealth influence techniques or more about Steve Hassan's BITE model, please watch the following three short videos by Steve Hassan: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03), Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23).

I was once a friend to a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW who encouraged me to accept a bible study with an elder and later with a brother. She stopped seeing me, I beleive, because I started asking too many difficult questions from the study conductors.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath

by Found Sheep in

nice guy i worked with him for about a year.

he is mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... he needs to come clean i think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so i don't have the upper hand?

is there a coc for mormons?

ABibleStudent

Hi Found Sheep, Have you thought about talking about your JW experience with him? According to Steve Hassan a good way to help a member of a dangerous cult realise that they are in a dangerous cult is to talk about the characteristics of another dangerous cult (i.e., shunning, thought-stopping platitudes, etc.).

You can also read information about applying the BITE Model to Mormons on the freedomofmind website: https://freedomofmind.com//Info/infoDet.php?id=370 .

Have you asked him whether he has read one of Steve Hassan's books or visited his website www.freedomofmind.com? His reaction might be a good segue into how the WTBTS warns JWs to only believe in the WTBTS's propaganda.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert