Nice Guy I worked with him for about a year. He is Mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... He needs to come clean I think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so I don't have the upper hand? Is there a COC for Mormons? My goal in life is to be an ex-cult therapist
Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath
by Found Sheep 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
leaving_quietly
Oooh, oooh, I know... there was JUST a talk on the School about this.
Adam did not observe the Sabbath
And Jesus was the end of the law and made it obsolete, including the Sabbath
So, no Sabbath required
The end.
Seriously, though... if he really wants to know, ask him to look at the ORIGINAL commands for the Sabbath and what it was to be for. I WISH we had a sabbath today since it was to be a day of "complete rest". Many religions make it out to be a day of worship, but that wasn't what God had commanded. I just did a word study on this, and I'm not done with it. By "word study", I mean that I searched for every occurrence of "sabbath" in the Bible and have all the verses in a document. I'm reading through it. This gives the sense of what is behind a certain word. For "sabbath", thus far, I can only gather that it was meant to be no working, resting, giving animals a much needed break. There wasn't any sense of going to worship on that day. The Israelites weren't even permitted to light a fire in their homes that day. The point was to rest.
Don't know if this helps at all.
-
Found Sheep
rest - not worship? That is new to me
-
-
leaving_quietly
The first mention of Sabbath is in Exodus 16.
Ex 16:22-30:
22 On the sixth day, they picked up twice as much bread, two omer measures for each person. So all the chieftains of the assembly came and reported it to Moses. 23 At that he said to them: “It is what Jehovah has said. Tomorrow there will be a complete rest, a holy sabbath to Jehovah. Bake what you need to bake, and boil what you need to boil; then save whatever is left over and keep it until the morning.” 24 So they saved it until the morning, just as Moses had commanded, and it did not stink nor were there maggots in it. 25 Then Moses said: “Eat it today, because today is a sabbath to Jehovah. Today you will not find it on the ground. 26 You will pick it up for six days, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.” 27 However, some of the people did go out to pick it up on the seventh day, but they found nothing.
28 So Jehovah said to Moses: “How long will you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws? 29 Take notice of the fact that Jehovah has given you the Sabbath. That is why he is giving you the bread for two days on the sixth day. Everyone must stay where he is; nobody is to leave his locality on the seventh day.” 30 So the people observed the Sabbath on the seventh day.Ex 20:8-11:
“Remember the Sabbath day to keep it sacred. 9 You are to labor and do all your work for six days, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, neither you nor your son nor your daughter nor your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your foreign resident who is inside your settlements. 11 For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and he began to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the Sabbath day and made it sacred.
Ex 31:14-17:
You must keep the Sabbath, for it is something holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does any work on it, then that person must be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a sabbath of complete rest. It is something holy to Jehovah. Anyone doing work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath; they must observe the Sabbath during all their generations. It is a lasting covenant. 17 It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel, for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’”
Ex 35:1-3:
Moses later gathered the entire assembly of the Israelites together and said to them: “These are the things that Jehovah has commanded to be done: 2 Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will become something holy to you, a sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah. Anybody doing work on it will be put to death. 3 You must not light a fire in any of your dwelling places on the Sabbath day.
You get the idea.
-
leaving_quietly
Notice here: https://www.lds.org/manual/primary-1/lesson-15?lang=eng
Like JWs, Latter Day Saints say a lot of things without scriptures to back them up. They say worship means thinking about our Heavenly Father and Jesus and that's what God wanted on the Sabbath. But there is no verse to back that up. That's what THEY say the Sabbath means. But, the Bible says it was a day of "complete rest". Thinking about God on that day is in the original commands as far as I can tell. It was to simply be a day of rest, no work. And to make sure that his people didn't have to work, God provided double the portion of manna the day before and ensured it wouldn't spoil that day. Thus, they really had no reason to work.
Frankly, this was a pretty awesome thing. Could you imagine working for a boss who told you that you absolutely were never to work one day a week, that you were to just rest? Stay home and rest.
I'm already searching and am in 2 Kings, and there is no mention of "thinking about God" on the Sabbath.
-
Qcmbr
Questions not challenges is my advice. There is no CoC but online the mormons are being dismantled on every front. The supposed strength of a mormon, their testimony, is the real weakness. Ask your work colleague how he 'knows' it(mormonism) is true. He will respond with either experiences and or feelings. Ask if before the 'experience' did he know. Ask why they arent just feelings and why they can only be supernatural. Ask if he's ever felt something that turned out wrong (~100% of faithful mormons will lie - the reality is mormons regularly have promptings that turn out plain wrong all the time - about as often as regular people goof up when they trust their gut). Keep pressing the spiritual side and point out how normal the so called special experiences are. Believing mormons really think they live in a spiritual magic world where blessings really cure the incurable , where mystic messages materialise in their brains to tell them where to work or what to say and where their god speaks via good feelings or by causing themto feel all confused. Ask him to relate the last time he was told by the spirit to not do something. Rinse and repeat. Only by confronting the mormon programming that they are somehow living in a Harry Potter special world and continually pointing out that they really arent can you deprogramme them at a fundamental level.
-
Crazyguy
I wonder if the sabbath was one of Hammurabi's code of laws???
-
ABibleStudent
Hi Found Sheep, Have you thought about talking about your JW experience with him? According to Steve Hassan a good way to help a member of a dangerous cult realise that they are in a dangerous cult is to talk about the characteristics of another dangerous cult (i.e., shunning, thought-stopping platitudes, etc.).
You can also read information about applying the BITE Model to Mormons on the freedomofmind website: https://freedomofmind.com//Info/infoDet.php?id=370 .
Have you asked him whether he has read one of Steve Hassan's books or visited his website www.freedomofmind.com? His reaction might be a good segue into how the WTBTS warns JWs to only believe in the WTBTS's propaganda.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
-
Black Sheep
I talk about my experiences with my father's church, which enables me to bring up tactics that I want them to use on me when they are cornered. After they tell me that those tactics are wrong, I ask questions that corral them into doing what they just agreed was wrong, then ask them to explain why they just tried to scam me with a tactic they don't agree with.
Rinse and repeat.