What did Jesus really mean, when he said he had made his Father's name known?

by Faithful Witness 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Faithful Witness

  I am preparing for my meeting this Friday with Miss K. We are reviewing the Bible Teach book, and she is looking forward to "showing me some things about the divine name." I don't know WHAT she might pull out of her hat this time... but that section of the Teach book is so completely assanine, I don't even know what to say. Based on a single verse at Psalm 83:18, they have jumped to a big conclusion. God's name is "Jehovah." (no, it's not!) God wants YOU to call him "Jehovah." ... because it just makes sense, doesn't it? If you met a new friend, and her name was KHDNL, and you decided it would be easier to call her "Linda," that would make you feel "closer" to her... wouldn't it? Don't you want to feel "closer" to your new friend, now that you know her name?

  I am baffled by the way JW's are so insistant on calling God by the name "Jehovah," when they all seem fully aware that it is a gross mispronunciation and an erroneous translation of the Tetragrammaton. I know they can't give it up now, since they have named their religion after this bogus nickname for their Almighty God, God the Father in Heaven. (hallowed be thy name, but we don't care if we even try to say it right)

  My JW elderette (Miss K) has told me that Jesus came to "sanctify his Father's name." I have been unable to find any quotes from Jesus, where he tells us to call God by any name, except "Father." He does say "Father, I have made your name known." (Really?... Not to be a smart aleck, but if that is the case, why didn't anyone write it down, so we'd know how to pronounce it correctly??...) What did Jesus mean when he said that to his Father?

  When I meet with Miss K this Friday, what verses might she pull out with her cherry-picker, to prove to me that Jesus actually DID declare the name of God, and that we are supposed to call God by His personal name? I don't know if I will be able to get past this "lesson" with Miss K. I will never be able to agree to call God by the name "Jehovah." It is wrong! (another question that will just "go on the shelf," or will she give up when I refuse to submit and obey?)

  I was doing some of my own research (per her suggestion), looking up the instances of "name" in the NT. In John 17:26, Jesus said "Father, I have made your name known." ... Yet, this is right after John 16, where Jesus tells the disciples to call on HIS NAME. He says this a few times, "Anything you ask in MY NAME, will be given to you..." etc.

  John 16:23 In that day you will ask me no question at all. Most truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything, he will give it to you in my name. 24 Until now you have not asked for a single thing in my name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. 25 “I have spoken these things to you in comparisons. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in comparisons, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will make request of the Father in my name; in saying this, I do not mean that I will make request for you.

  Jesus tells them, "If you want to get to God the Father, you have to use MY NAME." Then in the next chapter, Jesus says, "Father, I have made your name known."

  Maybe I'm missing something here... but it sounds like Jesus is actually telling them to use HIS OWN NAME, not to call out God's name.

  Even if we get past the twisted mispronunciation they use for God's name, can anyone show me where Jesus told the disciples to call on God by any name other than JESUS?

  What did he mean, when he declared that he had made his Father's name "known?" What did he mean, when he said that he came to "sanctify" his Father's name? How can JW's make the claim that they were appointed to speak for God, when they know full-well that they don't even say his name right?

  Why are JW's so passionate about this issue? I have heard JW's proudly proclaim that they are the "only ones using God's name." Yet, when you question them on it, they admit that they are saying it wrong... HUH???? How do you justify that in your mind? I really don't get it.

  I'm not trying to be rude or judgmental, but how did you reconcile that in your mind?

  It really seems like they are simply worshipping and fixated on the name of their religion. They admit that Jehovah is not God's name, yet make a big show out of using it repetitively in prayer and conversation.

  (Mind control at work... I really want to just tell Miss K, "I'm sorry to tell you, but you've been HAD!" but now she has kids and grandkids trapped in the cult along with her.)
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  Zoos

  When I meet with Miss K this Friday, what verses might she pull out with her cherry-picker, to prove to me that Jesus actually DID declare the name of God, and that we are supposed to call God by His personal name?

  Not sure how many times the WT has added the name Jehovah to the NT scriptures, but Miss K could present one of those altered passages.

  By WT's own suggestion, it is best to have several bible translations on hand for comparison. In their book, All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial, they explain how comparing various scripts help to weed out spurious content. By showing your JW guest how every other bible out there isolates the NWT into a corner regarding its use of the divine name in the NT scriptures you will force her into defending the governing body and IT'S translation decisions - which in the end is all they have to fall back on. It might help to have a Strong's concordance handy to show her how difficult it is to render the Greek word kurios as anything other than Lord.
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  galaxie

  F.W. ...You could start from the fundemental question;..How can we be certain jesus said anything which is attributed to him by people which we know almost zero about.

  Jesus did not write or record anything of his own volition, the circumstances of his given ( biblical) existance is dubious at best.

  You are dealing with people of faith who will use it to justify doctrine which satisfies their own inability to question belief which flies in the face of reason and evidence.

  My advice is to say no thankyou I'll work things out using my own reasoning, not what your publications tell me.

  Best wishes.
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  designs

  Don't you think saying and spelling the name Jesus is just as corrupt.
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  Honesty

  Ask her WHY the church in Corinth called on "the name of Jesus Christ our Lord - theirs and ours" in 1 Corinthians 1:2.

  Get ready to hear a lot of doubletalk from her.
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  The Searcher

  Ask them why they don't call themselves Christ's Witnesses, when that's what the Scriptures COMMANDED them to be?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/259331/1/We-Are-Not-Witnesses-For-JEHOVAH-According-to-the-Bible

  The Jews who followed Jesus, ALL knew God's name - Jesus was simply DEMONSTRATING to them the MEANING and OPERATION of his Father's name, by means of his teachings and his miracles!
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  wannabefree

  Faithful Witness ... here is a line of reasoning that worked for me when i was trying to come up with a different answer than my JW programming ... it may be helpful because these are sriptures familiar to your JW study conductor used a little differently than she is programmed to think about ...

  Jesus said ...

  (John 17:26) .And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them."

  A proof text held on to by Witnesses to support the fact that they are the only true religion.

  Now think back to Moses.

  (Exodus 6:3) . . .And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.

  Was God known by his name before this statement to Moses? Insight on the Scriptures says yes indeed and explains how this verse can be understood.

  *** it-1 p. 78 Almighty ***

  This could not mean that the name Jehovah was unknown to these patriarchs, since it was frequently used by them as well as by others before them. .... they had not had opportunity to appreciate the full meaning and implications of his personal name

  With this thought in mind, how can Jesus' words at John 17:26 make sense, especially since the Divine Name does not appear at all (with the exception of hallelujah) in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

  Think too of the famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus' most extensive recorded teaching event. Nowhere on this occasion does he teach others to use the Divine Name or does he use it himself. If it was Jesus' intention to literally declare the name Jehovah, isn't it odd that he didn't on this occasion? Could making his name known have a different meaning?

  Look back a little in John chapter 17 ....

  (John 17:11) . . .Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me

  What is "your own name which you have given me"?

  The Father gave the Son the name....

  (Matthew 1:21) She will give birth to a son, and you must call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."

  And what does that name mean?

  *** it-2 p. 51 Jesus *** (Je′sus) [Lat. form of the Gr. I·e·sous′, which corresponds to the Heb. Ye·shu′a? or Yehoh·shu′a? and means "Jehovah Is Salvation"]

  How did Jesus make that name known?

  The Son made known God's name (John 17:26) by providing meaning to the name, just as the name was defined through Moses and the acts of deliverance from Egypt, so too the Son gave meaning to God as "Jehovah is Salvation" ... Jesus.

  God's name IS made known through the name Jesus! The divine name, while not appearing anywhere in the Greek Scriptures as Jehovah, is in actuality throughout the text as "Jehovah is Salvation" (Jesus). By preaching the name Jesus, God is not relegated secondary to the Son, that is the Name the Father gave, his own name.

  Now other texts that seemed problematic take on a whole new meaning and make sense. (At least it did to me.)

  Such as ....

  (Acts 4:12) . . .there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."

  (Mark 13:13) . . .and YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name. But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

  (Acts 1:8) . . .YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."

  (John 14:26) . . .But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.

  (Acts 2:38) . . .Peter [said] to them: "Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of YOUR sins, and YOU will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.

  (Acts 3:6) . . .However, Peter said: "Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene′, walk!"

  (Acts 4:18-20) . . .With that they called them and charged them, nowhere to make any utterance or to teach upon the basis of the name of Jesus. 19 But in reply Peter and John said to them: "Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to YOU rather than to God, judge for yourselves. 20 But as for us, we cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard."

  (Acts 8:12) . . .But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized, both men and women.

  (Acts 9:27-28) . . .and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen the Lord and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he continued with them, walking in and out at Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord;

  (1 Peter 4:16) 16 But if [he suffers] as a Christian, let him not feel shame, but let him keep on glorifying God in this name.

  (1 Corinthians 5:4-5) . . .in the name of our Lord Jesus, when YOU are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 YOU hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

  (Matthew 24:9) 9 "Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.

  (Matthew 7:21-23) 21 "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

  (Acts 4:29-30) . . .grant your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and portents occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus."

  (Acts 9:15-17) . . .the Lord said to him: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. 16 For I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name." 17 So An·a·ni′as went off and entered into the house, and he laid his hands upon him and said: "Saul, brother, the Lord, the Jesus that appeared to you on the road over which you were coming, has sent me forth, in order that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit."

  (Acts 9:27-29) . . .he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he continued with them, walking in and out at Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord; 29 and he was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews. . . .

  (Matthew 18:20) . . .For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."
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  barry

  Growing up in the SDA church I remember two hymns with the name Jehovah in the title 'Before Jehovah's awful throne' and 'Guide me o thou great Jehovah' . Many other hymns have the name Jehovah in the words of the hymn. Of course most Hymns have Jesus name.
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  snowbird

  Jesus revealed the character of the Father, that the Father is love.

  In Jewish thought, a name was more than an appellation, it also identified the nature of a person.

  Tell her that Jesus was referring to His 12 apostles (yes, even Judas!) when He said, "I have made your name known to them."

  These Jewish males, all versed in the Torah, would have known about YHWH, so that couldn't have been what Jesus had in mind.

  Insist on reading the entire 17th chapter of John, so that nothing can be taken out of context.

  Blessings.
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  ABibleStudent

  NIV MT 23:23-24

  23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

  Hi Faithful Witness, As you wrote about in your post, your solution to overcome Miss K's tactics is to read scriptures around her cherry-picked verses to understand the context of those verses. It would slow her down and therefore keep her off-balanced, and allow you to ask simple questions to hopefully reach her authentic persona. If she protests about you wanting to understand scriptures in context, you could recite MT 23:23-24 to her or Acts 17:11. Also, if you read MT 23 from Steve Hassan's perspective about dangerous cults, it almost reads like a description of dangerous cults.

  Unfortunately Miss K probably is on a convention high this week and is full of WTBTS programming, so I would cancel meeting with her for several weeks. It usually takes several weeks for a JW's authentic persona to re-assert itself after a DC or assembly.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert

  P.S. - I hope that you had a great vacation on the island.