Posts by ABibleStudent

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Faithful Witness - "So, we believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones teaching the TRUTH today. It sounds like you really aren't there yet," she said, as she got up to go.

I said, "No, I am not."

Miss W piped in with, "That's because you are still in kindergarten. It will take you awhile to get to 1st grade, then 2nd grade..."

(I kept in mind that they were recruited during the fever of 1975 and the end of the world, as Miss W continued). "Some people take longer to come to the truth. When my husband and I started studying, it only took us 3 months, and we were ready to be baptized! But they stopped us and said, 'Wait a minute... you don't KNOW quite enough yet...' so we studied for 3 more months, and THEN we got baptized!!" She was so proud of this quick progress, I could tell. . . .

They are so fixated on these little details and side issues, that they are missing the big picture. Next week, I will find a way to say something about how much I learn from MY kindergartener, every day. My son is a brilliant example to follow. Didn't Jesus tell us to come to him like children?

Hi Faithful Witness, From a JW's perspective they are right and you are wrong. The elder, who was my "Bible Study" (indoctrination) conductor, once told me that I did not have the right heart/mind to understand the Bible secrets that he was trying to help me learn. If you can cause Miss K to doubt her approach in trying to indoctrinate you, may be it will open her mind a little. JWs use what Steve Hassan would call unhealthy influence to unduly influence people [see his video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)].

I can think of two ways to confront Miss K about her use of unhealthy influence (e.g., changing topics and saying you are in kindergarten). May be other JWN members have additional ideas. Probably the better method is to repeat what Miss K said, ask her how she would feel if a Mormon told her what she said to convince her that she did not know what she was talking about or always changed subjects instead of answering her questions.

The other method would probably cause Miss K to end her "Bible Study" (indoctrination) with you. When Miss K says that the problem is you (or constantly changes subjects), ask her why she is brining reproach on Jehovah? When she asks what do you mean, ask her why is she using unhealthy influence techniques to unduly influence you and then show her Steve Hassan's video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01).

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I'm impressed that you talked with the two sisters for 3 hrs!! Here's two for you.

Have you thought about asking Miss K to view what she says from your prespective? How would she feel if she asked you a question and you changed topics instead of answering her question? Would she feel like you were hiding somthing from her? Would she feel that it was a health or unhealthy conversation?

Miss K seems to use a lot of thought-stopping platitudes like "imperfect men" and "that they did something wrong". Since Miss K likes to say that the WTBTS has imperfect men who have made mistakes in the past, how does she view your opinions about the Bible? What did those JW men do that was so wrong in Miss K's opinion? Are you more imperfect than JW men who have done something wrong? Is she more imperfect than JW men who she said did something wrong? When JWs say that the "Light keep getting brighter" is it because imperfect men made mistakes and needed to cover-up their mistakes?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

11

new poster

by stirred but not shaken in

havn't been able to post .

how do i do it?.

ABibleStudent

Welcome stirred but not shaken, Just type in the box at the bottom of this webpage between "Post a reply", and the "Submit" and "Cancel" buttons. When you are done, press the "Submit" or "Cancell" buttons. You will have about 30 minutes to edit your post before it cannot be changed by pressing the pencil icon on the far right of your comment.

Without writing too much details, what is your story? What inspired you to join?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

9

Helpful Scriptural References - importance of Trust in God not Man

by objectivetruth in

psalms 118:8 - it is better to take refuge in jehovah than to trust in humans.. the scriptures are clear that jesus is the truth - the way - the life : john 4:6 - jesus said to him: i am the way and the truth and the life.

no one comes to the father except through me.

1 timothy 2:4 - whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

ABibleStudent

I like Mt 22:37-40 and Mt 15:14 to overcome how Christians need an organization. How can you follow an organization who's leaders tell its members to follow what the leader(s) says no matter what. Since God's greatist commandment instructs Christians to love God with "ALL" your heart, mind, and soul and his second commandment instructs followers to love your neighbors as yourself, how can Christians blindly follow its religious leaders like the Jews followed the Pharisees and Sadducees?

Mt 22:34-40 (NIV)

The Greatest Commandment

34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[ c ] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[ d ] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Mt 15:14

That Which Defiles

15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ [a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ [b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’ [c] ”

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. [d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I wish you the BEST!

DITTO what cultBgone said about slowing Miss K down by at least repeating what she said back to her and then asking her a simple question about what she said.

It is very important that when you ask simple questions to sound sincere and inquisitive like you are trying to understand what Miss K is trying to teach you. You may become very frustrated listening to Miss K, so visualize in your mind something that makes you very happy so that your body language and tone of voice does not betray what you are thinking. Do you have a smartphone? Although it is illegal to record conversations without the other person knowing about it, recording your conversations with Miss K may help you to listen to how you sound to Miss K. After listening to the recording, just delete it.

Listen to what Miss K says to detect her using thought-stopping platitudes. If she does, try to overcome them if you feel you know how to or at least remember them for later.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

80

My Experience and how I finally let myself see the truth

by OneEyedJoe in

first off - for those lurkers who feel guilty just for being on this site and reading this (even if you don't read any further, as it is your right to choose that course) i want you to know that you're not alone in what you're going through or in what you are feeling.

if you read on, i hope my experience may be of some small help to you.. this may be long, but i'll try to organize it in a way that doesn't make it painful to read.

to start, i feel it is most beneficial if i'm upfront and honest with my goals from posting this, which are (in order of the degree to which they motivated me):.

ABibleStudent

OneEyedJoe - . . . However he's also expressed his own doubts about things, and just the other day stated of the overlapping generation change: "I don't like it because it puts the end further off." Of course he followed it up with a reference to John 6:68 saying "but where else would we go?" It may be wishful thinking, but the way he said it sounded like it had a hint of saddness in it, as if he actually wanted an alternative. Who knows, maybe this will lead somewhere. . . .

Hi OneEyedJoe, "but where else would we go?" is a good example of a thought-stopping platitude that JWs frequently use. Steve Hassan describes this in his books.

In time you may notice more thought-stopping platitudes. How would your FIL react if you responded, "Don't you mean whom and not where? Simon-Peter asked a rhetorical question in John 6:68. His answer was Jesus Christ and not where."

If you want a lively conversation, you could follow up with, "I have sometimes wondered why Jesus Christ did not order the twelve disciples to shun those disciples who left him in the desert in John 6:60-70. Have you every found a verse in the Bible where Jesus Christ endorsed shunning or not associating with people, who did not believe as he did?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

John 6:60-70

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit [a] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

33

A Text Message Exchange

by Emery in

jw
friends

i have been in the fading process for over a year now.

nobody has really bothered my wife and me since we've stopped, which i am thankful for.

recently, i've had an old jw friend send me a few text messages relating to business.

ABibleStudent

Friend: I don’t need any other facts. The preaching work is the single most important sign and thing that sets us apart and is there to show you the organization is from Jehovah. That is the whole key to everything as far as being able to determine the true religion.

Hi Emery, Thank you for sharing. You did a great job of trying to explain your feelings to your friend, but your friend does not want to be confused with facts that will cause him cognitive dissonance.

Writing to him about anything other than, "I love you unconditionally. I will always enjoy talking and spending time with you. I hope to chat with you soon." will probably adversely affect your fade. It sucks, but your friend is not ready to see TTATT.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

ABibleStudent

Hi jonza, Be loving, patient, and compassionate. DO NOT get your hopes up until after she has done her own research and is not regurgitating what you told her. You want her to critically think for herself. It is better for you to ask her simple questions and encourage her to do her own independent research and critically think for herself.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

80

My Experience and how I finally let myself see the truth

by OneEyedJoe in

first off - for those lurkers who feel guilty just for being on this site and reading this (even if you don't read any further, as it is your right to choose that course) i want you to know that you're not alone in what you're going through or in what you are feeling.

if you read on, i hope my experience may be of some small help to you.. this may be long, but i'll try to organize it in a way that doesn't make it painful to read.

to start, i feel it is most beneficial if i'm upfront and honest with my goals from posting this, which are (in order of the degree to which they motivated me):.

ABibleStudent

Welcome OneEyedJoe, Thank you for sharing your story. Please vent on JWN as much as possible, so that you don't say anything to raise JW family and friends' suspicions.

It seems that today a few JWs have joined and written about their experiences. It is sad that the WTBTS's BITE control is so strong that JWs are afraid to express their doubts anonymously to strangers.

What is your plan to fade? Have you considered the following?

Obtaining more education/training to qualify for a better paying career. If your wife asks why, than ask your wife simple questions in the ways that Billy the Ex-Bethelite wrote in exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed. According to the WTBTS, you are the head of the family. You love your wife and are concerned about providing for your family in this "System" while you wait for the Big "A". Ask your wife, "How long has the WTBTS been saying the end is soon?" or "How can you balance your "Spiritual" desires (slaving for the WTBTS) verses providing for your family?"
Independently researching the WTBTS by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com,www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, www.freeminds2.org, etc. While doing your research, look for keywords that you could suggest that your wife use to search the internet to answer your simple questions.
Reading information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones to Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs", visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website. The following three videos by Steve Hassan might give you some ideas to help your wife to critically think for herself: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03) , Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003(1:23:23).
Asking your wife simple questions to learn more about what will empower her authentic persona to overcome her cult persona. Ask your wife about what she thought, as a child, her life would be like when she grew up, what she dreamt of doing when she grew up, or what fun, non-WTBTS activity she would like to do now. After you learn what activities that your wife would like to do that is fun, make plans to show your wife how much you love her by planning activities that are fun and where she will meet more non-JWs with similar interests. Have you searched the internet for local activities near you, visited www.meetup.com or signed-up on www.travelzoo.com for daily emails suggesting fun activities near you.
Making more non-JWs friends that you and your wife share similar interests so that you can build your support network when your JW friends and family start to shun you.
Hold a Bible Study night with your family. Your objective will be to ask your family what they feel about the scriptures and to ask them questions about what Jesus Christ felt about the Pharisees and Sadducees using BITE control techniques to victimize Jews. If you don't know what BITE control techniques are visitwww.freedomofmind.com. DO NOT try to draw parrellels between the WTBTS and the Pharisees and Sadducees - let your family figure that out by themselves.
Learn how to do the following:

Show and tell your wife and children how much you unconditionally love them.
Talk less and listen more to what JWs say and watch their body language.
Ask them simple questions to learn more about how to empower their authentic persona to overcome their cult persona.
How to turn on and off a JW's cult persona.
Learn what thought-stopping platitudes JWs use and then learn how to overcome those platitudes when you are ready and confident of the outcome.
Encourage your children to make non-JW friends, who you and your wife may share similar interests with their friends parents, encourage your children to make sleep-over dates with non-JWs, encourage your children to ask questions of what adults say so that they can learn to critically think for themselves, encourage your children to use the internet to research school topics, and encourage your children to obtain advanced education/training after high school.

Best of wishes successfully fading from the WTBTS with your wife.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

19

What if you were a member of the GB and you woke up

by enigma1863 in

what if you were a member of the gb and you woke up and realized it's all bs.

what would you do?

i would try to change the org from within..

ABibleStudent

Since most JWs only awaken when they are whipped too much by the WTBTS, I would vote for everything that the WTBTS is currently changing. Hopefully, it would wake-up more JWs. Fewer JWs is better than more JWs.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert