respectful_observer

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Posts by respectful_observer

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  30

  Crisis of Conscience, Apostacy and the Antichrist

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just finished reading coc and it's truely a thought provoking book that's given me much to think about.. one thing that has struck me is the way rf was disfellowshipped and how he tried to reason with the elders on the jc.

  a key point of reasoning was that how the elders could define the disassocated one he ate with as "the antichrist" or one practicing the things described in 1 cor 9. apparently the elders either remain silent on the matter or said it was not for them to judge.. i thought the reasoning was really sound but i have been doing some checking on the definition of apostacy and the antichrist according to the society and it seems pretty clear to me that anyone guilt of apostacy becomes part of the antichrist.

  characteristics of apostacy as defined in the it-1 book are described as follows:.

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  respectful_observer

  Interesting, I never noticed this before:

  "Not all holidays directly involve false religion and require judicial action."

  I'd be curious to know which holidays a JW could celebrate without being threatened with "judicial action?"
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  65

  New Article - Birthdays, Why the Watchtower stance is wrong

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a new article at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/birthdays.php outlining why the watchtower stance against birthdays is wrong.

  there have been a number of threads on jwn discussing this, and the article collates and summarises the points raised in these threads.

  please feel free to point out any errors in grammar or logic.

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  respectful_observer

  Blues Brothers:

  The reasoning that I once read on here was to say to the dub

  " So then, when a baby is born in your family, nobody has a "baby shower" or send gifts and cards?

  dub "Oh yes we do - that is different"

  What is different? You are saying that it is proper to celebrate year zero, but not years 1. 2. 3 etc?

  ..................................

  We always show up to visit the new baby in the Hall with an actual "Happy Birthday" card. We love to see the expression on their faces when they open it...

  "What's the matter, we ARE celebrating a birth here, right? Let's enjoy it, it's his/her only birthday we're allowed to celebrate!!"

  We enjoy watching the ever-so-rusty gears in their brains begin to turn as they mull that one over.
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  2

  Interesting WP read: Parishioners Question Need for Fidelity Oath

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts has the two baptism questions that must be answered aloud.

  interesting to see how members of another faith react to something similar.

  i pasted a few excerpts below (emphasis mine).. ................... http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/sunday-school-teachers-balk-at-oath-agreeing-to-all-church-teachings/2012/07/11/gjqacavgew_story.html.

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  respectful_observer

  The WTS has the two baptism questions that must be answered aloud. Interesting to see how members of another faith react to something similar. I pasted a few excerpts below (emphasis mine).

  ..................

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/sunday-school-teachers-balk-at-oath-agreeing-to-all-church-teachings/2012/07/11/gJQAcAvGeW_story.html

  The Arlington Diocese, which includes nearly a half-million Catholics across northern and eastern Virginia, is one of a small but growing number that are starting to demand fidelity oaths.

  [F]or some, particularly more liberal Catholics, the oaths are an alarming effort to stamp out debate in the church at a time when it is bleeding members and clergy in the West. They note that church leaders’ views have changed over the centuries on various subjects, including contraception .

  “I’m just shocked, I can’t believe they’re asking me to sign this,” said Riley, who said she may keep her own children out of the parish education program in the fall. “The bishops are human, and sometimes their judgment is not God’s judgment. We always have to be vigilant about that. The Holy Spirit gives us the responsibility to look into our own consciences.”
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  15

  'Obey the organization like Moses'--why this is wrong

  by sd-7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just thinking about how the watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of moses.

  challenging moses, in their retelling of the biblical account, equated challenging god's authority, as korah, dathan, and abiram did, to their own peril.

  the conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the watchtower society's teachings even in our private thoughts.

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  respectful_observer

  sd-7....you beat me to the punch. Reading that DC transcript posted earlier, I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING.

  It seems a bit foolish for the GB (oh, I mean the F&DS) to compare themselves to Moses...someone who Jehovah saw as unworthy to enter the Promised Land because he essentially had claimed that he was the means of delivering life-giving water.

  Of course the GB wouldn't have to worry about that, it's not like they claim that what they produce and distribute is the sole source of life giving....oh, wait....
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  162

  No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

  some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

  anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

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  respectful_observer

  They'll do it will closed circuit TVs. People will go to Assm Halls and watch televised talks. At least for the "keynote" talks where they will "pipe in" from the conventions where GB or Bethel brass are speaking.

  ............

  Ugh...that would be torture. Total snooze-fest.

  Anywhooo, whatever they have up their sleeve, we'll probably have to wait until January 2013 for official word. (Isn't that when "the letter" usually gets sent out? Commence the stampede to the Information Board T M so you can book the best place of the Required Recommended Lodging TM List!)

  As an aside, I noticed the 2012 DC program posted on JW.org is printed in the oh-so-creative color of black. Is it actually printed in BLACK this year? And the badge cards? (I have yet to "forget" to pick mine up.) I'd laugh if it is...maybe black represents the death of the 3-day DC???
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  162

  No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

  some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

  anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

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  respectful_observer

  Thanks elderlite. I actually thought of your thread when it came up for the first time this weekend! I was working in service this weekend with an elder that works on elements of the DC program far in advance made some veiled comment that we wouldn't have to worry about lousy hotels for the DC next year. When I asked if that meant we were moving it to a new location, he said "Well, I really can't say anything about it. I actually stumbled across some information that wasn't intended for me, so I don't want to get ahead of the 'Faithful Slave.'"

  A couple of days later, someone (who doesn't know and lives far away from that elder) just came out and said, "Hey, did you hear that they're scrapping the 3-day conventions next year? I guess they decided it's too much of a burden on the friends (hotels, travel, time off). They're going to replace it with a second 2-day at the Assembly Halls. I tried to ask my (substitute CO) cousin. He said couldn't talk about it. When I asked my friends in (another state) if they'd heard anything, they said "Yes, doesn't everyone already know that?"

  Still another person who works in the hospitality industry (not a JW) was told by the local DC venue that the JWs had pull out of their contract for next year's DC.

  If it is just a rumor, it is wide spread. If it's true, it's now the worst-kept secret in the world.
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  162

  No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

  some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

  anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

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  respectful_observer

  sir82 - I asked the same question. I was under the impression that the Assembly Halls are used almost every weekend already, but everyone who's mentioned this (all in the last several days) seemed confident that their info was solid. Of course, I can see it now....a building spree of Assembly Halls that will:

  A. Add to the WTS Real Estate portfolio

  B. Be viewed by/sold to the Rank & File as a sign of "growth and Jehovah's blessing"

  C. Be sold as a tremendous "witness" to the communities where they are built.

  carla - Yes, it was explained to me that there will no longer be any 3-day "District Conventions; instead the annual program will consist of a single 1-day SAD and two 2-day Circuit Assemblies.
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  162

  No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

  some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

  anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

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  respectful_observer

  Apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but I have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the DCs), that beginning in 2013 the three day DC program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

  Some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.

  If everyone in J-dub Land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??

  Anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?

  R_O
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  48

  Was There Ever A Poster Here That Realy Was a Watchtower Spy?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since some believe that watctower regularly observes this site,did you ever know of a watchtower double agent here?.

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  respectful_observer

  I wouldn't be surprised if some "spiritually strong" higher ups peruse the sight, not to find people to rat out, as much as an effort to see what the latest "hot topic" is in the apostate community. Not unlike the mindset the Nixon campaign had when they orchestrated the Watergate break-in of DNC headquarters. "If we can find out their campaign plan, we can figure out a way to counteract it."

  It can't be coincidence that the topics du jour here will often randomly and subtley show up in WT study articles 6 months later.
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  35

  Hardest most awkward parts of being mentally out but physically in

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am still physically in but am completely out mentally.. i was curious for those who spent some time in the borg while being mentally out or are still in that position, what is the worst, hardest or most awkward parts... for me i intensly dislike attending the meetings however its bearable as i can just let my mind wander, but field service is awful.

  i cannot try to bring someone in to a group that i am trying to plot a way out of.

  so now i try my best to either spend the day driving around to others fruitless rv's (we have somewhat rural territory) or eating out at an extended breakfast or if door to door cannot be avoided, i try to work alone and not ring bells.

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  respectful_observer

  This is what I imagine would be the hardest things:

  - The torture of sitting there at the meetings and assemblies KNOWING there are others who count themselves as members of the “Conscious Class,” but fear ensures all members of it only ever know for sure that they alone are a member.

  - Seeing your spouse openly disagree with so many doctrinal and procedural issues, mock the ridiculousness of Bethel, fill out fake time slips every month, hate meetings, etc., yet turn right around and pledge their undying loyalty to the Org

  - Knowing that if you have children, you have to face the choice of raising your child as a JW or losing your entire extended family.

  R_O