Posts by jst2laws

78

What is the truth?

by OldSoul in

jw
friends

pontius pilate asked, and now i'm asking.

i've been reading many topics in here, now i am wondering... what is truth?

i'm both respectful and broadminded enough to allow for any other viewpoint, whether or not i agree.

jst2laws

Dave

Just a suggestion, this board has a PM (Private Message) function that may better suit the possible personal game you are trying to play with Steve. Putting this on the main board for all to see may not accomplish what you are trying to do, and waste a lot of peoples time, but then again, you may not care. Steve is a smart man and can take care of himself, he can even take this off the main board if he wishes and discuss this in private. Just a thought.
Big hug mysterious stranger, Dave

Relax Dave, he has the ability to cause a lot more havoc then messing around like this. I'm glad you closed your comments with a big hug. I think he deserves it. OldSoul, I told you:

I am coming in on this late and have not read the response of others. I will, nevertheless, give you my feelings

Well, I may have responded differently if I had read all of your comments. But if you know me as you say it makes little difference.

I'd be very surprised if Steve ever removed any sincere, thought provoking post from anyone. Censorship is anathema to him. Unless I don't know him anymore, I haven't said or done anything in here that would make him do anything more than bark a chuckle, sigh, sit back and cross his overly-large forearms over his overly-rotund belly, shake his big wooly head at the screen and take a quaff of something from an overly-large stein. When he reads that, his face is gonna crack a grin a mile wide.

Steve

78

What is the truth?

by OldSoul in

jw
friends

pontius pilate asked, and now i'm asking.

i've been reading many topics in here, now i am wondering... what is truth?

i'm both respectful and broadminded enough to allow for any other viewpoint, whether or not i agree.

jst2laws

Narkissos, Very well said. Pole

Do those who get baptized as teenagers also use their "free will" to decide which religion they'll stay in for the rest of their lives? DO children believing in Santa use their free will when they take what their parents say at face value?

Free will is a highly disputable concept in many ways. Philosophically, psychologically and religiously.

Very good. The WT pushes for child baptism but then tries to hold them accountable for life for their beliefs at that time no more substantiated then belief in Santa Claus. The courts often uphold those commitments on the basis of their 'implied consent' to the WT rules for not taking a hike when they came of age. I really think those who split as baptized teenagers would have a real case in court for damages from shunning on the basis of their baptism being that of a minor and their disfellowshipping or DAing as a teen invalid because their contract with the Watchtower Society as a child was invalid. Jst2laws

78

What is the truth?

by OldSoul in

jw
friends

pontius pilate asked, and now i'm asking.

i've been reading many topics in here, now i am wondering... what is truth?

i'm both respectful and broadminded enough to allow for any other viewpoint, whether or not i agree.

jst2laws

Hello OldSoul, I am coming in on this late and have not read the response of others. I will, nevertheless, give you my feelings, especially since you said " I am particularly interested in the response of jst2laws". You theme "What is truth" presents an interesting paradox. The question was asked by Pilate to Jesus, yet Jesus says nothing definitive on most of the issues you listed. Many (examples: is God a trinity, was Mary a virgin) were not even concepts of concern. Some others were addressed vaguely by His followers but not by Jesus. These are long time concerns of the Christian church and the Watchtower Society but not of much concern to Jesus.

Basically, I don't see any great light in here yet.

This is not the place for "light". Most of us are here as a result of investigating the WT history, doctrine and policy OR we were forced to face the harshness and hypocrisy that made it clear LOVE was missing in an organization that does not hide the fact that it is primarily a Publishing Corporation. If you are ready for information that will change your life with the truth about the "truth" I suggest you go to www.Amazon.com or http://www.commentarypress.com/ and order both of Ray Franz's books, James Penton's books and both of Carl Jonsson's books. Note above, I said IF you are ready. But be prepared for a paradigm shift.

Hopefully someone here can help me figure out where the bitching about a past you never even wanted stops and where the Great Enlightenment starts.

You will see that for yourself if you challenge the WT rules and get the above publications. We do not discuss the facts much here as this site is more a support system for survivors. Most of us have learned the facts and that results in all five stages of grief, grief because we lost a life that was a fantasy. That is the reason for what you call "bitching". Many are in the 'anger' stage. This site is more of a support group for those recovering from the loss of the fantasy, loss of their families, loss of their former life. But it is temporary. Thousands have come and gone. They now rarely or never post because they have a new life based on truth and reality. I hope that does not offend you. Please do not assume you have "the truth" until you have examined the whole story, the other side of the story. Anytime someone denies you this opportunity, red flags should go up. You sound very much like me when I came here. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/3642/1.ashx ) As you know I have had some loss as a result of taking a stand. But I am now happier than ever in my life. I certainly am not "gnashing my teeth". I hope you investigate as I did if you are so inclined. If not, I hope you find happiness within the WT Society. Jst2laws

7

Is it Legal or not?

by wizedup in

jw
friends

i noticed in phil: 1:7 all my translations say, "it is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since i have you in my heart; for whether i am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in god's grace with me.

the nwt inserted ".... defending and legally establishing of the good news.

they footnote it to acts 25:11 where paul says he's willing to die if he's deserving out of wrong doing....then " if, on the other hand, none of those things exist of which these men accuse me, no man can hand me over to them as a favor.

jst2laws

It is not my habit, since leaving the WT, to get into word studies but I will pass this much on. The word the Society uses here to translate as " defending and legally establishing of the good news " is

NT:627
apologia (ap-ol-og-ee'-ah); from the same as NT:626; a plea ("apology"): KJV - answer (forself), clearing ofself, defence. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It does not imply anything "legal". The use of the Greek word is in the New Testament is only 10 times and is translated as "answer" for one self or "make a defense" for ones self. However this is what Barnes Commentary says, which according to Ray Franz the WT writers lean on:

Phil: 1:7
NT:627
apologia (ap-ol-og-ee'-ah); from the same as NT:626; a plea ("apology"): KJV - answer (forself), clearing ofself, defence. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Phil 1:7
Greek: apology. He is probably referring to the time when he made his defense before Nero, and vindicated himself from the charges which had been brought against him;
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)

I suspect this was all Freddie Franz needed to validate the JW use of courts by translating the text as " defending and legally establishing of the good news ". It's a stretch, but better than some of their dogma that is literally 'pulled from the air'. Certainly they have made use of translating the text as an opportunity to establish doctrine. Jst2laws

28

After 6 months of working on it, it's finally done

by seven006 in

jw
friends

i haven't been posting much lately for three reasons, iv been working my butt off, also trying to slip in a little time to finish my web site, and, i no longer get the one time joy and personal fulfillment i use to get giving shit to all the christians on this board.

to be honest, i really like some of the open minded christians here even if they still hang on to the jesus myth.

my new outlook on it all is, what ever floats your rocks.. .

jst2laws

Dave,

All I got to so far was the 3D Illustrations and everyone I clicked on I had a spontaneous "WOW". I haven't clicked on all of them yet but intent to before going on to the nudes. I hope they are not 3D nudes or I might pass out. But I'm going to risk it.

Dude, this is chilling.

Jst2laws

10

did you diassociate yourself?

by boy@crossroads in

jw
friends

i had one of my brothers' witness associates drop me off somewhere earlier tonight.

he's from another congo.

and he knows i haven't been at a meeting in some time.

jst2laws

Boy@crossroads,

I find whats helps to some degree is to take yourself out of the situation mentally and then imagine how you would act had you never been exposed to the witnesses.

That sounds like a good idea. Hope you are young enough to do it. Some of us are too old or too many years inside, but we should try to imagine how a normal person would act. Thanks

Jst2laws

18

I'm new and need advice

by lucky in

jw
friends

hello everyone.. i am new to this board (although i have "lurked" on and off for the past few years and feel that i know many of you .

i will give a brief bit of background and then ask for some advice.

my mom was baptized when i was very young and i was raised in the truth, along with my siblings.

jst2laws

Lucky,

You truly are lucky. One of the best things to do if one wants to fade is move. You did it years ago. After the relocation one must make no contact with JW's. You have done this well also. I wouldn't count the elder visit much if, as you say, you didn't speak much.

As MegaDude suggested do what you want and blame it on your husband. "This is what he wants Mom" is all you need to say and probably is not a lie.

Now can you avoid confrontations while visiting with your family. You will have a delicate balance between revealing little things that may help your siblings to wake up without causing the question of apostasy to be raised. Play safe and just be supportive and show them you are happy. When the flood of discontent hits them as it will some day perhaps they will come to talk to you.

I think you have a good chance.

Jst2laws

16

Ozzie gets a makeover!

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

yep, ozzie has decided it's time for a change and come out of the closet!.

the picture has changed but not the person!

this is the pic of a lad who has nothing - yet he always smiles!

jst2laws

Ozzie,

I hope you will some day share the rest of the story with the board. You are too modest.

Jst2laws

BTW- If any have trouble seeing a picture of a little boy as Ozzie's avatar, hold (ctrl) and press F5 to get your computer to 'hard' refresh.

15

HOLY &*^%$#$!@!!!!

by NOdenial in

jw
friends

codeblue just became an empress!!!.

all kneel!

and pledge allegience to our most recent dignitary.

jst2laws

HOLY &*^%$#$!@!!!!

Pour some Merlot and celebrate.

Jst2laws

64

James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture

by Leolaia in

in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".

we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.

the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.

jst2laws

Leolaia,

As usual, excellent research.

TD

Did you at any point in your exit from the JW's discuss the Bible with their elders?
A "Leolaia's shootout with the elders" would have been priceless!

Amusing. While the "elders" have been the essences of theological authority in the lives of the survivors here, they are hardly in the position to "discuss the Bible" on this level. In fact, since the death of Fred Franz there is not even a GB member up to speed to dare TRY and dispute Leolaia's posts. The WT fundies just can't touch this stuff.

Jst2laws