Posts by inbetween

30

Leaving the Watchtower religion behind...are we ABLE to reconsider with FREEDOM what may NOT be "true?"

by Terry in

as we all now know, once you leave the watchtower religion you are exposed to the possibility of education for the first time.. an ex-jw discovers that the theocratic lessons they have learned were not all they were led to believe , i.e.

"accurate knowledge.".

is this story actually true?

inbetween

wow, so amazing, especially to discuss things the much younger JW of myself.

The other day I was thinking, maybe this is something that may indeed unite some of many ex-JW. My approach to the faith was, even though being born in, always on a logical basis. I believed, our religion is firmly based on facts and absolute logical conclusions. I never really "felt" much in a religious sense, even as a full believer, my prayers were kind of empty...

I did question, but the mistake was, i only looked for answers in the societies literature. See, how effective information control can be.

Oh, and btw, Terry , I always read and appreciate your posts here, thanks for them .

8

new FDS teaching

by inbetween in

with the study of the new teaching of july 15th wt, which will be done in septmember 2013 in sight, i try to collect all kind of objections from here and other sites, in order to have enough ammunition for discussions ready.. wih this in mind, i found an additional problemwith this new teaching.. since before 1918/19 there was no fds, ergo no channel of truth, ergo no true worship, and russel and his fellows just some "normal" folks, what about all those, who were baptized prior to 1918 ?

like freddie franz, rutherford etc, there baptism was therefore not valid, just like jw view baptisms of former catholics, protestants etc not valid and baptize them again.. ho can they be annointed, when they were not properly dunked ?

just show, with their new teaching, the fds cut the very branch they are sitting on.. .

inbetween

with the study of the new teaching of July 15th WT, which will be done in septmember 2013 in sight, i try to collect all kind of objections from here and other sites, in order to have enough ammunition for discussions ready.

Wih this in mind, I found an additional problemwith this new teaching.

Since before 1918/19 there was no FDS, ergo no channel of truth, ergo no true worship, and Russel and his fellows just some "normal" folks, what about all those, who were baptized prior to 1918 ? Like Freddie Franz, Rutherford etc, there baptism was therefore not valid, just like JW view baptisms of former catholics, protestants etc not valid and baptize them again.

Ho can they be annointed, when they were not properly dunked ? Just show, with their new teaching, the FDS cut the very branch they are sitting on.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

inbetween

JW like to hide behind the clergy privilege of churches. I dont know how the law is in the UK, but in my country, what is said in a confession to a clergyman (eg catholic priest), cannot by law be forced to reveal.

JW like to use the same law for themselves, however, there is one big difference: What is confessed to a catholic priest stays with him. What is confessed to 1 or 2 elders, if its serious, will be made known to the whole BOE, in some more difficult cases to the CO, the branch, and if the wrongdoer moves to another congregation, they will inform the BOE there as well.

But when it comes to a seroius crime, the authorities will not be informed, because of their confidentiality rights ? Does not make sense, as soo much of the WTS.

5

You people are poisoning my mind!

by stillin in

so, i'm sitting there in the kingdom hall.

the watchtower study is what's going on.

lots of re-hashing the paragraph that we just read, so lots of time for my mind to wander.

inbetween

totally agree, once you woke up from this nonsnese, its a real pain sometimes to sit through the meetings.

I always try to remember though, that before this, I would have said the same thing. This helps me not to get angry on the one commenting, but only on the concept promoted by the org.

6

New Video "Stop the Shunning!"

by Watchtower-Free in

new video by jwstruggle "stop the shunning!

jw.org says we don't shun but we know otherwise".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72cews3_cq.

inbetween

good video, what I found very interesting, that tax collectors back then were called apostates, is there a source for this information ? Would be extremely helpful.

19

Why the "New Light" in the July 15 Watchtower?

by Indian Larry in

it seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner.

for example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.. what is the reason this time?

are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up?

inbetween

personally I think its the growing number of participants at the memorial, which became embarrassing for the cult, since they claimed, that the dwindling number in the past is proof of the nearness of Armageddon.

by pushing "normal" annointed to the same level as the great crowd, they take away some importance of being anointed. Their being somehow special is then really pushed to the future "kingship in heaven". Maybe they hope, this will prevent some from joining the anointed rank, or even not paying any attention to the numbers anymore, since they are pointless. Who cares how many are anointed, since the FDS is not made up of them anymore.

21

another problem with the new FDS doctrine

by inbetween in

the issue july 15th 2013 changes the understanding of the fds dramatically, and it was broiught out here and on other places this creates numerous problems.. here is another one:.

jesus is supposed to be the head of the congregation.

when something goes wrong, he is often portrayed as the one having control over his congregation and also that in time he will act, clean the congo and direct elders (being the stars in his hand).

inbetween

The issue July 15th 2013 changes the understanding of the FDS dramatically, and it was broiught out here and on other places this creates numerous problems.

Here is another one:

Jesus is supposed to be the head of the congregation. When something goes wrong, he is often portrayed as the one having control over his congregation and also that in time he will act, clean the congo and direct elders (being the stars in his hand)

But now, he is portrayed as being actually absent from the congregation, since he appointed a slave to provide proper food. The reason in the parable, why the master appointed a slave, was not to keep the slave busy, or because the master became lazy, no it was simple, because the master left the country, therefore could not take care of this by himself.

But if he is absent, how can he direct congregational matters ? What point is there in entrusting somebody else with such an important task, like providing "spirtual" food, but still watching the whole thing and meddling in the affairs anyway at anytime ? It simply does not make sense.

8

Is "Old Light" really called independent thinking?

by I_love_Jeff in

jw
friends

when "old light" becomes "new light" sometime down the line the "new light" will eventually become old.

i do realize the superiors use passages (aka word magic) to explain such a big change.

what would be the difference between holy spirit revelation vs. man's opinion in this particular situation?

inbetween

James 1:17 might be useful

New International Version (©2011)
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Whatever is good and perfect comes down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

17