Posts by Fadeout

64

Why I post about atheism

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

oftentimes the accusation is made that there is some sort of conspiracy on jwd amongst the atheists to convert, humiliate, spit on, or otherwise degrade the believers.

it's been suggested that their tone is condescending and arrogant.. it's hinted at that they're angry and bitter about their own lives and want to take it out on god and his humble servants.. others think it's all just an excuse to lead what they judge to be a morally depraved life.. regardless of what we believe about god's existence or lack thereof, most rational adults understand that when we attempt to judge the motives of others we can miss by a mile.. so here's the reason i post about the topic of atheism.... i was born as one of jehovah's witnesses, fourth generation.

i was being indoctrinated with jehovah while i was still in the womb.

Fadeout

Trevor: Many of societies prejudices come from certain religious beliefs. Once we take up an entrenched position and claim we have faith of certainty, we have to defend that position and in doing so we close our mind new discoveries that don't fit in into our the certainty that we cling to.

Exactly. I don't see what good can come from voluntarily closing one's mind, refusing learning opportunities, willfully stagnating, needlessly taking offense, making life a living hell for yourself and others. And for what? The need to be right? Not worth it.

26

What about those INTELLIGENT JW's? Did you have any in your cong'?

by nicolaou in

i remember as a child being impressed by several older 'brothers' who were well educated and articulate.

we had guys with degrees and one had a ph.d in some branch of physics - a professor.

now you know as well as i do that that level of education was, and still is, mightily discouraged by the wt but these guys had managed it somehow.. as an impressionable kid it put 'the truth' on a more secure footing for me, after all if these intelligent men could believe .

Fadeout

Yeah there were some folks I thought were really intelligent. Interestingly, some of these are ones that were more willing to discuss some "uncomfortable" subjects for JWs. I had an elder friend who was talking about how only the anointed become immortal, the rest of us never do, or he'd talk about the horrible stories in the Bible, like the rape of the concubine in Judges or the cannibalism in Israel, or bring up some past discarded WT teaching.

Thinking about it later, I noticed that he frequently seemed to bring up these strange subjects and I wonder now, was he trying to get me to think? Because he really was too smart for the JWs. He went to college too.

Remember in Orwell's "1984" the guy that is writing the new dictionary, and Winston figures he won't last long because he's too smart, and at the end he's in the cell with the rest of the thought criminals? Hmmm.

15

When Disassociating

by str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up in

someone had started a thread about a comment their mother made - "i would rather my children be dead then disfellowshipped" and it reminded me of a comment my father made when i disassociated myself:.

"...don't disassociate yourself - simply don't go to meetings or go out witnessing...it will make it so much easier for you to come back..".

it disturbs me on two levels:.

Fadeout

yadda: Why do homosexuals make so much of their whole identify revolve around their queerness. I mean, even the name you chose for your profile is all about being queer. Sad.

Whoa, this'll get ugly.

I almost chose a name to reflect my heterosexuality, something along the lines of, "Female? Your orifices are in imminent danger of my c*ck" but ultimately decided against it.

There... mood lightened. I feel better.

I was talking to a JW once who has three kids, none in the org, he was saying how if his kids aren't in the New System he doesn't really want to be there without them. Sad. He's DFed now, so I guess wherever they're going they're going together.

64

Why I post about atheism

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

oftentimes the accusation is made that there is some sort of conspiracy on jwd amongst the atheists to convert, humiliate, spit on, or otherwise degrade the believers.

it's been suggested that their tone is condescending and arrogant.. it's hinted at that they're angry and bitter about their own lives and want to take it out on god and his humble servants.. others think it's all just an excuse to lead what they judge to be a morally depraved life.. regardless of what we believe about god's existence or lack thereof, most rational adults understand that when we attempt to judge the motives of others we can miss by a mile.. so here's the reason i post about the topic of atheism.... i was born as one of jehovah's witnesses, fourth generation.

i was being indoctrinated with jehovah while i was still in the womb.

Fadeout

jaguarbass: Faith is required in theism and atheism.
I mean if you really believe.
Agnostim is low energy, low stress, no faith, luke warm. That everyone wants to spit out.
The past month or so I am contemplating that reincarnation is the missing piece of the puzzle.
Regardless, I do not believe there are any concrete answers, its all faith.

If this post was not made in seriousness, the dryness of the humor has gone even over my head.

The above is another way of saying "I don't know, but because I desperately want to take a stand I'm going to act like I do know and criticize those who admit they don't know."

Agnosticism is "low energy"? How do you figure? The path of least resistance would be to conform to whatever belief predominates among your social group. It takes guts, and humility, to admit you don't know, especially after years of knocking on people's doors saying "you're wrong and I'm right."

Agnosticism is "low stress"? Belief systems are not low stress. People are low stress, or high stress, and that's all.

Agnosticism is "no faith"? If by "faith" you mean the 'unreasoning acceptance and internalization of conclusions lacking justifying evidence,' then you're right. But I don't see how that's a bad thing.

"That everyone wants to spit out." Well, that's true. Most people cannot take uncertainty for even a short time, they will transition hurriedly directly from one nonsensical belief to another... like a Catholic becoming a JW or a JW becoming born-again. The idea that "maybe I don't really know the plot of the universe" is anathema to most, especially those conditioned to believe from childhood that they somehow have a divine right to know the truth.

145

Why Do Atheists Return to Theism?

by B_Deserter in

jw
friends

from my new blog at pundidiot.baywords.com.

Fadeout

I've seen "maltheism" used the describe the belief that God is evil and should be hated.

Gopher:The evangelizers say that others have to accept their God or else others will be eternally condemned somehow. They condescend in saying that eventually the atheists will see the light or be proven wrong.

The thing is, if you believe the Bible that's really the only conclusion to arrive at. It's a pretty explicit teaching in both the Old and New Testaments. Which is why Christians scare me a little because at some level, the God's-gonna-get-you-for-not-joining-us belief is always present, maybe not to the same degree as with the JWs, but there nevertheless as an unavoidable part of their sacred texts.

64

Watchtower Comments (5.26.08) PROPAGANDA & FALLACY

by V in

direct link here.

.

Fadeout

Jeez... I almost want to go to this meeting just so I can stand up and walk out when those paragraphs are read.

Nice work V.

80

* Name a reason people wont make it through Armegeddon *

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

let's start a list of reasons why you were told, or overheard people telling, won't make it through the big a day.

i'll start.. 1. they don't take showing up for cleaning the kingdom hall seriously and never show up.

i overheard a sour puss old elder say this to his wife after he just gave a scolding talk on it.

Fadeout

Armageddon coming an hour before the announcement is read to the congregation that you're being reinstated.

40

4TH WITNESS is here to expose! Apostates Beware!

by 4THWITNESS in

bow before me all opposers and apostates.

you are all deceivers, trying to pull people away from the truth.

but you will not succeed because 4thwitness is now here to expose all of you for the devils children you all are.

Fadeout

So is it a compliment to call him full of shite?

86

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

by Seeker4 in

i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.

the next day i sent her this e-mail.

one should never be afraid of ideas.

Fadeout

Seeker, that's a great email, calm, rational, well-reasoned. The only thing I would be concerned about is the casting of doubt on the Bible itself (Adam, Flood, Jesus, etc) because that is a way bigger step from JWism to atheism/agnosticism than JWism to WT-doubting Christian. One step at a time. But you never know, everyone responds differently.

42

your personal favourite books that freed you from the JW's

by ninja in

1/captives of a concept.....fantastic....thanks don...you freed my mind completely .

2/visions of glory...barbara harrison....fantastic insights......(god can't kill arnold) .

3/jehovah lives in brooklyn.....ricky francis.....he sums all jw's up brilliantly....love this book .

Fadeout

CoC- I didn't know the story or the issues involved so it made a big impact.

ISOCF- Yes it's slower but has really good analysis of the techniques used, it reflected a lot of my personal thoughts that I hadn't yet fleshed out into explanations.

1984- For obvious reasons. The parallels are scary. I think if every JW read just this book, you'd have several thousand new ex-dubs.