Posts by OnTheWayOut

23

There is No Way Out For Me

by Addison0998 in

i have come to the conclusion that there is no way for me to ever leave.

although i have some friends at work, my whole social structure are witnesses.

even if i move congregations, my parents have contacts everywhere who will tell them if i’m not active.

You are going to get all kinds of answers here. Many will say your mind is still in cult think. Many will say you must seek your own happiness and let go or take chances with family relationships.

No matter what advice, rest assured that many of us do understand where you are. But we all have to make our own choices.

If I had children in my situation, I would not hesitate to cease being a "fader" and I would simply sacrifice my relationships with any JW's to allow my kids to have the freedoms I would want them to have. But I do not have such children, so I don't choose that path. Some pull the plug on a marriage in order to get away from the cult. Others, like myself, do not. Some choose life-long family relationships over enjoying their freedom in other ways.

You must make those choices. I can say that I was not going to miss out on the enjoyment of ending the regular mind-numbing meetings. I found a way that worked out for me, for the most part, where I can keep family relations, but I lost all JW friends. Well, I have better non-JW friends, so that part is good.

You could consider at least becoming a very "WEAK" JW and let your family "flip out" a bit over that. They could eventually get used to your inactive lifestyle. You can gauge how far to take it by their reactions and your desires.

I can say with confidence that I would rather attempt such than just be resolved to be a JW and never even pursue a life partner. And if my family could eventually cope with my inactive status, but would not attend a wedding, I would miss them at my wedding.

Consider this- Recruiting (what they call field service) is not mandatory. They say it is, but being inactive is not a DF offense. I turned in a tiny bit of "fake time" but kept it extremely low, and then stopped turning in time. Consider some choices there. If you can't bring yourself to an inactive status, how about a barely active status with minimal (faked) 1 hour reports?

11

Two big points that need to be emphasized in JDub pedophile discussions

by Sour Grapes in

i love watching the jw cart crashers on youtube and how the zombie, brain dead, we are so much better than you jdubs react.

when they do talk a little about the two witness rule they will mention the need for proof and the testimony of the poor child is just not enough to take the inquiry any further.. the reason for calling the police is immediately is that dna can be gathered from the poor victim.

this evidence is the second witness used for prosecution.

OnTheWayOut

The heart of the problem is that they don't look at anything like this as the crime that it is.
If some slightly older child came forward and reported that his/her step-father committed a murder, they would know that they have to call the police. But the crime is something short of murder and they get all bogged down in their two-witness rule, getting in touch with Bethel, and whether this is a disfellowshipping offense and who will be on the judicial committee.

Their own lawyers must recognize that a huge part of the problem is the organization constantly telling members that the world cannot be trusted and to turn to "Jehovah" with every last thing. And then they tip toe around such major issues in the local Kingdom Hall. They simply don't want to acknowledge that such problems exist INSIDE the congregation as well as OUTSIDE.

Two things.
1. If they would be straightforward and say that while members can bring their concerns to the elders, they will always have to go with such members to the police when they report an alleged crime. Standing with someone in support as they go to the police IS NOT ASSUMING THE ACCUSED IS GUILTY. It is merely aiding a member to go forward with a serious allegation, just as serious as a murder allegation.

2. I would love to suggest that their recruiting work is for adults only, but they would never go that far. They should at least say that all minors should only work with their parents in the recruiting work. NO EXCEPTIONS. If a member is under 18, they have to go on calls only with their parent or not at all.

14

JWs studying with a neighbor: what should I do?

by john.prestor in

so let me introduce myself first: i've lurked here for years because i'm working on a long-term research project concerning jehovah's witnesses and i've collected data from this site (seriously, you guys are awesome, i've learned so much from this forum i never would have learned otherwise).

i've also collected data at multiple kingdom halls and read scholarly works on jehovah's witnesses and non-scholarly works as well (e.g., crisis of conscience).

so i have a pretty good sense of jehovah's witnesses even though i was not raised in this faith nor did i ever join up.

OnTheWayOut

Great job, John. Thanks for stepping up a little out of your comfort zone.

23

Are You Proud of Your Country?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

some people are of the opinion that it doesn't make any sense to be proud of one's nationality because we had nothing to do with where we were born.

the decision wasn't ours.

they opine that it's ludicrous to be proud of our countries' prior achievements if we had no part in those achievements because we weren't even around then.

OnTheWayOut

I get "Gay Pride" or "pride in your work" and being proud of your children and all that kind of stuff.

I certainly don't understand being proud of "YOUR" sports team because they play half their games in or near where you live or grew up. You can be excited about it.

I have to say the same for pride in one's country. It is the same as the sports team thing. To me, one could only be a "Proud American" if they have something to do with what's happening. I will even allow for past involvement causing one to have pride in current developments. For instance, I was assigned to the very first crew of a ship in the Navy, so I could be proud of the start I helped develop and the path that ship took because of its start. (I didn't have such pride, but I can see where others might.) You could be proud that you helped put a certain person in office, but if it was just casting a vote, that's a little slim. Better to be proud of your own activism involved in that act and certainly in your current activism.

I don't really get involved in politics. Most of you faders know why. Plus, I was all-in as a JW and I was wrong. So I don't really want to be an activist again for some other causes. Oh, I love the whales and elephants and children, but I think you all know what it's like to stay un-involved in causes and why a former JW would do that.

So NO, I don't have pride in my country. I don't have hate or indifference either. I was born here, lucky to be so. But I am just as concerned about my fellow man across the ocean.

15

Rejoice cos God's tent is.... Disintegrated by a cat 5 truth storm

by Normalfulla in

just had to share... a former friend of my wife's, has just left our house, unbeknown to us, her and her husband have been inactive for about a year and a half, they have pre teen boys too.

she reached out to my wife as she had heard that we were apostates etc and needed someone to talk to.. .

after her father dying she was in a bad place mentally and emotionally and reached out to her cong for support, apon receiving 0 she turned to the bible for comfort only in her raw emotional state to realize that jehovah was a murderous unfair god and then her wheels of rational reasoning started turning.. she questioned things and was outspoken about things and attracted elder attention... long story short she wanted to connect with a friendly ear and she splurged she's never going back, the bible is all bulls**t and it's a cult, despite not knowing most of ttatt we all shared experiences and watched her eyes boggle at (stuckinarut... the first euphoric high) the un scandal, beth sarim, ray franz, 607, arc.

OnTheWayOut

21

"The last DAYS?"

by eyeuse2badub in

i was asked last sunday, after a meeting that i attended with my wife, by a good friend if i believed that these were indeed the "last days".

what prompted his question was the public talk given by a young man that i have known since he was 7 years old and is now an elder at 30.. the talk made mention several times that we are 'definitely' living in the "last days".

i assume that the expression "last days" was prominent in the outline.. i hope that he way i answered my friend's question jump started his thinking.

OnTheWayOut

....the end could really be thousands of years into the future. After all, a thousand years is but 1 day to jehober. And with all the "overlapping generations" (lol) and the "new light" (lol) yet to be revealed....

Great job with that.

Last days.
I try to lose them with a comparison. "Someone said once that they hate cut flowers because they are dying." I said that all flowers once bloomed are actually dying, so I see nothing wrong with enjoying them. So we are all in our own last days no matter how many days we each have, so I live for these days and do what I can to experience them now."

That's deep enough that they don't have anything to say usually.

9

Anti-JW movie on Netflix?

by Ray Frankz in

jw
friends

i'm watching the new netflix movie "come sunday".

it's one more film about a person who has turning point in life that demands the person to reevaluate his own faith and belief system.

in this case, the man is a petencostal bishop that gets very famous and has a big church preaching about salvation to heaven and punishment in hell.

OnTheWayOut

There have been a number of documentaries about cults. They tend to be made-for-television and most have had a small following. Leah Remini's series about Scientology was much bigger.

I think to break past a hesitancy to make a film where some large entity (Watchtower) could sue the filmmakers, we might see a film more along the lines of "The Master."

It was a fiction largely based on the founding of Scientology. When I saw it, I had to look up whether it was entirely fictional or not. It was entirely fictional.

But if public opinion continues to sway against groups that have allowed the covering up of child molestation in their past, then I could see a movie made that was directly anti-JW.

I think a huge problem with a big production movie meant to fill theaters with people would be that the Ray Franz story would have to be hugely over-dramatized to have such a following.

If it were me as a producer, and I was stuck with the Ray Franz story, I would see if I could switch it to a Fred Franz story. It takes us through much more interesting times prior to Ray's presence in New York Bethel and allows for a villain to later be shown as a broken man, dying but with his dissonance intact, and morphing into the Ray vs. Fred Franz story.

23

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if "Religion" had never reared it`s head.?

by smiddy3 in

can you imagine what the world of mankind would be like if their was never any concept of a god or religious beliefs ?.

for the love of me i can`t ,maybe i don`t have an imaginative mind equipped well enough to do so .. how about you guys ?

any takers ?.

OnTheWayOut

There is an episode (I actually think it is the second of a two-part episode) of SOUTHPARK called "GO GOD GO XII."

Skipping a long story, it essentially takes us to a future where religion is eradicated and war is being fought by 3 factions that argue over what is the most logical name for their denomination of atheism.

I think the point can be made that fighting over beliefs was embedded in mankind. If we didn't fight over "God," then we would have (and did) fight over land, oil, slavery, some issues.

25

Jesus—a real, historical person

by Ireneus in

jesus was a real and historical person (not the way jws or the rest of the people think him to be) because of the following historical facts:.

1) the fact that the most influential political establishment of that time (roman empire) was convinced that jesus’ name would sell to suit their political agenda (to promote slavery) shows that jesus was as historical as roman empire itself; hence they implanted slavery-friendly verses into the bible as though spoken by jesus (such as mathew 5:39, 41; 24:45 ..etc) this was in contrast to the real personality jesus really was—he was a man of courage, who ‘walked alone to do what is right if those invited refused to accompany him.’ when his family and disciples were fond of sleeping, his delight was to spend early morning hours alone, in meditation, with god to the extent he could say he was “one” with qualities of god.

(mark 1:35; john 8:1, 2; 10:30) such a person would naturally be too famous and too crowd-pulling against whom even the influential people were helpless even when they were whipped out of the temple which reminds us of “hollywood rambo style” merely because of his moral authority (not that he had any supernatural powers to perform miracles).. 2) similarly, emerging religion (apostate christianity) too knew they could misuse the name of jesus to serve its commercial agenda.

OnTheWayOut

I used to spend considerable time reading books that debated a reality of Jesus or a fiction come to life.
The arguments are stacked so high on both sides, with the fiction side suffering more from the fact that its advocates don't have anything at stake so they don't try as hard to extrapolate from theories and known facts.

The bottom line for me was that Paul's Christ was not ever described as a physical man who lived during his own life or just prior to it. Paul's Christ was easily a symbol for people, a myth that was magnified larger than life. And the gospels were added later to this larger-than-life myth.

In the end, I decided it doesn't really matter. If myths are based on a man or not, they are not reality. The son of God did not walk the earth and sacrifice himself for all of mankind. Miracles about Jesus are no more true than miracles about Buddha are true reality.

33

Do you miss that initial "high" ??

by stuckinarut2 in

do you remember the first time you found out "the truth about the truth"?.

yes, it was confronting, shocking and life altering.

yes it was hard to deal with.. but, along with that, many have said that they experienced a sense of thrill, euphoria, or joy when realising the facts about the religion that held us captive mentally and physically for so long.. it was liberating to learn some of the controversial teachings etc.

OnTheWayOut

Many say there was no "high" because they were angry instead.
But stop and try to answer this question- Did you feel a huge sense of "justification" for any anger or doubts or actions?

Could a sense of justification be like what others call a "high" ?

Just a thought.