Open Mind, this was directly confirmed by conversation with elders involved with her case. There was never even a "judicial committee" convened on her side. She just met with a couple guys, told them what happened, and they decided she was doing ok and repentant enough and there was no need for further judicial work.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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Voluntarily Confessing & Then Getting Reproved or Disfellowshipped
by minimus indo you realize how many contrite witnesses went to the elders to make things right with god and wound up getting disfellowshipped or privately or publicly reproved?
a lot.. did you or anyone that you knew ever get "disciplined" unfairly?
many times, no one would ever know about anything unless it was voluntarily brought up.
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Voluntarily Confessing & Then Getting Reproved or Disfellowshipped
by minimus indo you realize how many contrite witnesses went to the elders to make things right with god and wound up getting disfellowshipped or privately or publicly reproved?
a lot.. did you or anyone that you knew ever get "disciplined" unfairly?
many times, no one would ever know about anything unless it was voluntarily brought up.
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under_believer
Happened to me. Was a pioneer + MS, messed around with a girl in another congregation. No "porneia" was involved (god what a stupid concept that is.) Two different committees handled the situation because we were in two different congregations. They came to different conclusions. I was "deleted" (another stupid word) as a pioneer and MS and publicly reproved, she wasn't reproved at all. The situation was also marked by incompetence and fumbles; no communication, a several-week-long delayed judgment decision, one elder not even present at the final meeting, inability to explain why I was being punished in that way in light of the fact that there hadn't been any genital contact, and extreme rudeness to me when I wanted to ask questions and discuss it later--"I could care less how you feel about your discipline" is a direct quote from one of them.
I came to the elders out of a sincere desire to make things right with God. I really thought I had to confess and accept whatever they had to dish out in order for Jehovah to hear my prayers. I went in there and described to them (as you are supposed to do) every single last explicit detail of our encounter, like I was dictating a Penthouse Letters submission to these three middle-aged men.
I'll tell you what, though, it was the last time I made that mistake. Later when I did similar "bad" things with another girl (who I later married, BTW) I didn't even consider talking to them about it.
I have never trusted any elder as far as I could throw them ever again. Sure there's some good ones out there, but they are far outweighed by the bad ones and you can never know which ones you're going to get when you go to them for "help," putting aside the whole dubious concept of allowing some human to intermediate for you in your relationship with God. -
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'The good outweighs the bad'. I don't think so.
by ThomasCovenant infor most of my 30 years in the 'truth' (age 12-42 thereabouts) i have always doubted many many things taught from the watchtower.
however like many if not most of those brought up in it i got swallowed up in the whole social side of it.
bringing up children in it i told myself that it wasn't such a bad life after all.
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under_believer
ThomasCovenant, I have nothing specific to contribute to this thread other than to compliment you on an excellent, well-thought-out post that really nails how I feel about this issue.
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Disgusting comment re: education from Tacoma 2007 District Convention
by Justitia Themis inthis is from saturday afternoon program.
the speaker first starts with what he called the "alphabet soup" of degrees....a.a., b.a., m.a., ph.d., etc.
; he said they were nothing more than "sheepskins on the wall.
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under_believer
Our convention is in July at the Memorial Colosseum in Portland, OR. I swear to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, if they say anything like that I am getting up with my kids and walking the f___ out. My wife can stay or come with us, it's up to her.
In fact, I am strongly considering just telling my wife that we are going to miss that day. That talk and the sentiment behind it is harmful enough without ridiculous extrapolations from self-important carpet layers and window washers. -
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District Convention talk on Education
by Mystery injustitia themis began a topic 'disgusting comment re: education from tacoma 2007 district convention' regarding a talk on education.
i would like to hear it, can anyone tell me which day and time it was given?
the convention is in town this weekend (as well as last weekend and next weekend) and i need information on the talk.. i am going to visit my family next week and i want to try to talk to my niece about college.
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under_believer
It is almost impossible for me to believe that was actually said. There are many, many educated Jehovah's Witnesses whether they're in the minority or not.
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Wedding Anniversaries vs. Birthdays
by PopeOfEruke injw's often have big parties or "gatherings" to celebrate wedding anniversaries, esp.
for the big milestones (20th, 50th anniversary etc).. the process of these parties almost exactly mimic a typical birthday celebration: the couple of honour sit up the front, various people give speeches, show "honour" to the happy couple, there is a meal and drinks, usually an anniversary cake.. exactly the same as a birthday party.. so why is it ok to celebrate an anniversary of a wedding but not the annoversary of a birth??
when it's usually the "wedding" which sooner or later results in a birth??
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under_believer
I disagree. The birthday injunction is just an artifact from days gone by, one which they would never impose if they were a brand new cult today. They have no compelling reason to discard the practice. Though you're completely correct when you say that it serves one of the primary needs of a cult, which is to separate their followers from the world mentally and physically and to cause persecution and teasing which increases cult solidarity.
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What Made You Fall in Love With Your Husband/Wife/Lover ,Significant Other?
by flipper inhey all.
mr. flipper.
when in the witnesses, the fanciful thought is put forward that the main thing important in a marriage is the "threefold cord" having god in your marriage.
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under_believer
I met her at Pioneer School, her cousin introduced us. There's no such thing as Love At First Sight, but I will acknowledge the existence of A Great Degree Of Interest At First Sight. She was beautiful, fit, toned, vivacious, bright, communicative, sparkling. She was like a supernova. I didn't fall in love that day but it wasn't long before I did.
What do two 21-year-old newlyweds know about marriage? They know nothing. They're babies, they're barely formed yet. I can't believe I got married that young but that is the Witness way, is it not?
We have had many problems, especially seeing as how we are now living in a mixed-religion household (with kids which makes it roughly 1000 times worse, that's a scientifically accurate number by the way), but we're still together 11 years later. We've learned a lot about each other's strengths and faults by now. Love is what has kept us together. Love and hard work. Love, hard work, a shared regard for personal responsibility, and beer. Wait... make that love, hard work, a shared regard blah blah blah, beer, and and a not-insignificant amount of therapy and in my case medication. -
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WT admits they have added to the "Good News" that Jesus preached
by rockhound ini was looking over some of the archives in "the best of" section of jwd and found some very important quotes of the watchtower that may be of use to all.
keep in mind the warning in galations 1: 6-9 .
6 i marvel that you are being so quickly removed from the one who called you with christs undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news.
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under_believer
--Well what about preaching? It is a command from Jesus! Your not preaching the good news!
I love that one. Why do they always assume each individual Christian has a personal commission to preach? Jesus was talking to a large group of people there. Here's a recent topic I posted about this.. -
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Latest Society edict: proper dress after conventions
by B_Deserter ini left the organization in my heart a year ago, i stopped going to meetings a week ago.
this was recently announced for the upcoming convention.
jeans and t-shirts are not to be worn in public after each day's convention program.
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under_believer
Can anyone provide a direct quote or citation for this edict?
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The world IS getting worse!!
by themonster123 ini'm telling you- i honestly think people are getting more immoral!!
i saw something on the news last night where some bicycler got hit in the middle of the road in the middle of a huge intersection and people were slowing down to go around him.
that was at some urban centre in tel aviv, israel.
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under_believer
More people die in car accidents, heart attacks, cancer, hiv and murder today than died back then of an infection.
That is because there are so many more people alive today than back then, by a very large amount.
Infant mortality rates are vastly lower than they were in Terry's three generations ago. Life expectancy is roughly twice as long, at least in developing nations. Many diseases, such as polio, mumps, measles, chicken pox, and tuberolosis have either been wiped out or are greatly diminished. People are 25% taller, because of easy access to enough nutrition. Democracy spreads its slow way across the earth so that we no longer have to answer to a lord, a duke, a count, a king, but we are our own masters. Literacy is nearly universal--imagine not being able to read your own Bible, but only being able to listen to a priest's translation from Latin?
Don't succumb to false nostalgia. The average human being is better off today than they were at any other point in human history.