Posts by Zico

21

Circuit Assembly

by frozen one in

jw
friends

i chatted with relatives today and mentioned i might be in their area next weekend so i'd stop by for a visit.

turns out they will be at the circuit assembly, a 2 dayer.

seems like they just got back from the district todo.

Zico

I've got my Circuit Assembly this weekend. I'm going to take notes, and I'll post a review early next week.

31

Top ten issues to prove that JW's do not have "the truth"

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

i am trying to compile a list of proof's, issues, lies, etc that prove that the wts is not jehovah's channel.

.

what are your top reasons for now believing that it is not the truth?

Zico

The fact that they constantly ask other religions to examine their beliefs, but if any JW's do this, they disfellowship them.

21

Needed.

by dfrizzy in

i was raised a witness, and was one for 18 years of my life.

now at 21 i'm very much out of it (the organization that is).

i still have a few friends that are in the organization.

Zico

You should also read 'The Gentile times reconsidered' By Carl Olof Jonsson, for proof that the 607-1914 doctrine is a load of rubbish.

14

i think most of us read the debate between alanf and thirdwitness on the meaning and application of the word "parousia"..thirdwitness has endlessly claimed he won the debate..he dosen`t seem to realize there are more people here than him..lol!

!.....my question to the ladies and gentlemen of jw.com is:"who won the debate concerning the word "parousia" thirdwitness or alanf?

"..you decide...outlaw

Zico

The only arguments Thirdwitness had in the end, was to say over and over. 'HA! AlanF agrees that the route meaning of Parousia is presence!'

Even though AlanF proved, using another greek word, that the NWT does not always translate a word at it's root meaning when context demands otherwise, and he showed the context of scriptures where presence did not make sense. He then proved that Parousia can be translated into other words, such as coming, using many references and bible scholars. All Thirdwitness could say was 'HA! AlanF agrees that the route meaning of Parousia is presence!' It really was pathetic.

He also argued the scriptures about the Days of Lot, Days of Noah, and presence of the son of man, to try to prove that Parousia could be translated presence here, but ignored the fact that it did not have to be translated presence everywhere, and that it did not make sense to translate it presence in many other scriptures.

AlanF won.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

Zico

thirdwitness,

You never answered any of my questions about the similarities between the Malawi issue, and the UN issue. You just picked up one point from a long post and spoke about Nazis. You completely ignored 98% of the rest of what I wrote.

For your convenience, I'll post it again:

Having a Party Card, does NOT mean that you support the Party.

You support a Party by VOTING for it, or doing other things that HELP the Party. The Witnesses in Malawi had to carry a Party Card by law. They did NOT have to vote for a party. There should be nothing wrong with this. As I already stated:

"I’m on the voting register, I’m eligible to vote, I’ve never voted though, as it doesn’t mean I have to vote, but credit card and loan companies may look at the voting register to help them decide whether or not they want to give you loans or cards, so it’s useful to be on there, and the Society don’t say that you can’t do this, I asked an elder if it was ok, and he said it was fine. In some countries you have enforced voting. The Society doesn’t tell you to go to prison and refuse to go to polling stations, they let you go to the polling stations, but ask that you don’t actually vote, just spoil the ballet or something, so why was a Party Card so bad?"

The Party Card was just a symbol. Similarly, a Heil Hitler is just a symbol. Every person who did it, did not necessarily support the Nazis.

I also said:

"A Party Card may have convinced the Party that they showed support for them, but it didn’t necessarily mean that the individual carrying the card supported them, as they didn’t vote for them. Similarly, the Society had to submit articles to the UN that had to convince them that they supported them. Even if this did not necessarily mean that did support the UN as you believe it didn’t, surely you can agree the purpose was to convince the UN that they supported them?

Do you realise that some Organisations have had applications to become DPI associates rejected? This isn’t a recent thing, this has been happening since 1991/2 when the Society joined. Why do you think they were rejected? There MUST be a reason. The UN/DPI aren’t just going to be picking the names out of a hat, if they are rejecting Organisations, it would seem like they would only want associates who they believe are going to be of benefit to them. So, surely the articles the Watchtower Society provided the UN/DPI with, convinced them that the Watchtower Society would help them to spread information about their charter, and thus be a support to them?" THIRDWITNESS - IF you do not agree that the UN/DPI rejected some applications from NGOs who they did not think were beneficial to them, then please could you offer another reason why the UN/DPI would reject some applications.

What did the Party Card actually mean? As Steve posted, a quote from a 1976 Watchtower said this about Malawi:

There all citizens have been required to become members of the country’s only existing political party, the "Malawi Congress Party." A membership card costing about twenty-five cents (U.S.) identifies the bearer as ‘acquiescing to the principles of the ruling political party,’ especially to the Life President, Dr. H. Kamuzu Banda. How are the people of Malawi to view the purchase of a "Party Card"? An official circular issued on August 27, 1975, says: "This is the one way in which we people of this country can show appreciation to our Life Leader, the Ngwazi [Dr. Banda] for developing this country of Malawi."

A membership card, like a library card, shows suggests that the members agree with the principles of the people who issued the card. If there was nothing wrong with the library card suggesting that they supported the UN, why was having a Party Card which suggested they supported the Party so wrong? If having a library card did not mean that the Society agreed to support the principles of the UN, why does having a Party Card?

Fact is that these issues are very similar. SO, the Society were either wrong to associate with the UN/DPI, they were wrong about how they dealt with the Malawi issues, or they were wrong about both. Which is it Thirdwitness?

Please could you address these issues. And can I also ask you why Witnesses in Mexico were not allowed to pray at or sing Kingdom songs at meetings, or use the bible in preaching work, at the same time Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi were being sent to prison or killed for refusing to buy a party card?

In fact Thirdwitness, once you are finished with the UN debate, I challenge you to get into a debate about the Mexico/Malawi issues. If you accept, I will start a thread about it, and you can post in there and try to defend how the Governing Body dealt with these issues, but I don't think you will, because, unless you are completely stupid, you will realise, that the Mexico/Malawi ordeal can NOT be defended.

Zico

60

Let's count the years together.....

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

.

my years in = 43 total of those on this thread = 43. .

make it progressive - add yours to the last one posted and keep adding - lets see how many years we have invested.. so we have 43 - now add yours and keep it going.

Zico

20 years! 968 + 20 = 988 years!

3

Watchtower apologist website for UN issue

by LennyinBluemont in

jw
friends

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/ .

i'm sure i'm not the first one here to "discover" this site.

there's probably a thread here somewhere responding to it.

Zico

Hi Lenny,
There's a huge thread about this site here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/1.ashx The site was written by 'Thirdwitness' who is the one who started this thread, and who has spent 26 pages on thread trying to defend an issue that is not defendable.
I liked your observations, maybe you should join the debate?

39

Did anyone really buy into the "Universal Sovereignty" issue?

by loli in

jw
friends

i am new to the forum, but not new to jw indoctrination.

even as a child, i would ask myself, "why would the almighty creator need to prove anything to anyone, including him/her/itself?

really, one of the few scriptures that i do actually agree with is that 'god is love.

Zico

What I want to know, is if Jehovah is so just, why doesn't he give PERFECT humans a chance to rule themselves and see how they do?

It doesn't seem very fair, to say 'Ok, I'll give you humans a chance to rule yourselves, but first, I'm going to make you less intelligent, I'm going to introduce sickness, disasters, pain, suffering and death into the world.'

What hope did we have? Even if we could gain world peace, and remove crime, we are still going to have pain, and sickness, and death. How does that prove that man cannot look after themselves?

5

Circuit Assembly 2006

by Zico in

i've got my circuit assembly coming next week... which i'll have to attend.

i know that these are generally held around march/april, so i'm sure some posters must have been to the 2006 one?

i remember reading a lot of reviews about the district convention, and it was great to know what would be discussed before i went!

Zico

I've got my Circuit Assembly coming next week... Which I'll have to attend. :(

I know that these are generally held around March/April, so I'm sure some posters must have been to the 2006 one? I remember reading a lot of reviews about the District Convention, and it was great to know what would be discussed before I went! Especially as my family thought I was really clever when I kept 'guessing' correctly, what was about to be said! Lol!

Mainly though it was nice to prepare myself for 3 days of indoctrination and help me to argue the points being said (in my mind) so I could keep reminding myself that this is not the Truth! I'm fighting off 20 years of indoctrination here, it's hard not to ask myself 'But what if it is the Truth?' From time to time...

I couldn't find any similar posts about the Circuit Assembly. Does anyone know of any they could direct me to, or could anyone provide any information?

Thanks,
Zico

18

Kids under the age of 18 who get baptized...

by WTFBBQPWNT in

jw
friends

should be allowed to revisit their decision and either revoke or keep their baptism.

this is too major of a decision to be placed in the hands of minors.

the mental anguish that can result from it is something that kids should be protected against.. how would one even start the process of getting this passed as a law?

Zico

Doubt it would be possible to enforce a law. Really, the Society should state though that kids at 8/9 should NOT be allowed to get baptised. It is ridiculous that an 8 year old kid can be disfellowshipped and shunned, and it is hypocritical to criticise infant baptism and push ones this young to do it.

I was baptised at 13, far too young. As if I knew what I was doing! And now I can't say anything, because I'm too afraid of losing my family... :(

It makes me so angry!!!