Serotonin: There is a difference between trying to assist people's thinking and just being an intolerant bigot. Try to be careful not to fall in to the latter, because, in my opinion, that's how you're coming across... just my opinion.
"Can being a Christian be as harmful as being a member of the KKK, a nazi, or a suicide bomber? Hmm, well let's consider all the 'witches' and heretics burnt over hundreds of years"
And while we're at it, why don't we consider all the people that were killed under the regimes of Stalin and Mussolini, atheist leaders? Does that make all atheists bad people? Of course not. To write off a whole group as evil because of the actions of a minority is absurd.
"how about the wars Christians are engaged in right now, how about poisoning children's minds with flawed morals and unfounded fear? Then we have people in Africa dying from AIDS, while at the same time Catholics are over there telling them condoms go against God, and stem cell research being held back by Christians, which has the potential to cure millions. Is it as harmful? No. It's worse."
How about the wars Atheists are engaged in right now? What's your point? As far as I'm aware there are currently no wars being held in the name of Jesus. As for the Catholics, I don't agree in them holding back contraception, but it seems unfair to blame them for the spread of AIDs when it has also been due to sex outside of marriage, something else Catholics believe go against God.
There are 2 billion people in the world who profess to be Christians. If there were 2 billion people in the world who were white supremacists like members of the KKK or the Nazis, we'd certainly have mass ethnic cleansing. To claim that being a member of hate groups that despise most or all races other than their own is equivalent to being a Christian is, again, absurd.
To focus on some of the bad parts of sections of Christianity and claim it makes the whole religion evil is very wrong imo. On the most part, Christianity teaches a message of love, it's mainly the Fundamentalists who preach the hate, and Christianity has done a lot of charitable work, it has done a lot to help the poor and improve conditions for many people in third world countries. No good has ever come from the KKK or the suicide bombers.
"What about the good Christians? Well, what about the good nazis? They didn't ALL go killing, but plenty gave the power and support to those who did. If a group of fairy believers were good, and a few bad apples started doing bad things because it was a message that COULD be got from the fairy beliefs, why not just try to get them all to see fairy belief is ridiculous anyway and cut off the problem at its head. As long as Christianity exists, there will always be those who will think God wants them to do bad things."
There will ALWAYS be people who do bad things. Simple as. There are atheists who have done bad things, buddhists who have done bad things, and Muslims who have done bad things. Removing Christianity will not make the world a better place. In fact, I think a case could be made that without Christian charities, a lot of people in the world would be worse off, but let's not let the good of Christianity get in the way of your intolerance, eh Serotonin?
Posts by Zico
-
105Christianity in a nutshell
by serotonin_wraith inlet's see exactly what people are holding so firmly to, while all the time believing they aren't actually deluded.. section taken from: .
http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,1816,are-the-new-atheists-avoiding-the-real-arguments,edmund-standing-butterfliesandwheelscom.
first, let's take a quick look at the basic biblical narrative:.
-
-
Zico
-
105
Christianity in a nutshell
by serotonin_wraith inlet's see exactly what people are holding so firmly to, while all the time believing they aren't actually deluded.. section taken from: .
http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,1816,are-the-new-atheists-avoiding-the-real-arguments,edmund-standing-butterfliesandwheelscom.
first, let's take a quick look at the basic biblical narrative:.
-
-
Zico
"Now change the word Christian for some other group.
"if being a member of the KKK gives someone joy and happiness and fufillment, who is anyone to judge them for that?"
"if being a nazi gives someone joy and happiness and fufillment, who is anyone to judge them for that?"
"if being a suicide bomber gives someone joy and happiness and fufillment, who is anyone to judge them for that?""
You've got to be kidding me... Surely you don't actually believe being a Christian is as harmful as being a member of the KKK, a nazi, or a suicide bomber?
And if you don't, what was the point in making such a ridiculous comparison? -
39
Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?
by jah1914 inso after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.
" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.
he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?
-
-
Zico
1. What was true about the answer? Did the answer change or did your understanding of it change?
The answer changed.
2. How should your fellow students react to the mistake(s) you made? How would you want them to react? Once you have what you believe to be the correct answer, should you bring it back to them?
It depends, if you make the claim that you're a Mathematics professor, and that you're always right I think they'd be pretty annoyed (and confused) if you constantly went back to the same problems with new answers. If you've just told them that you had the answer correct, and they have to believe it or you'll have them kicked out of class, how would they feel when you went back with a new answer?
3. Do you think the teacher is upset that you tried and got the wrong answer to a very difficult problem? Would he be more upset if you just gave up and didn't keep trying to solve the problem? He would certainly be justified in being upset and removing you as a tutor if in the problem you missed some simple math portions(incorrectly added numbers, etc), but that wasn't the case you got the simple stuff right, you just missed the difficult portions.How should the teacher feel? After all you were one of the few to actually set up and try to help the other students?
I think the teacher would be annoyed if you'd told the class that the answer you came up with last time was infallible and that anyone who disagreed with you would be kicked out of class!
The problem with the 'New light' doctrine, is that the Organisation claims to be led by holy spirit, and be God's one true Organisation. If it didn't claim this, it wouldn't matter that it constantly changed doctrine. Being imperfect men is not an excuse to make mistakes when God is guiding you. The Society claim the bible is inspired, and has no flaws, and yet, it was written by imperfect men. If Jehovah could inspire imperfect men to write a flawless, and perfect bible, why can he no longer inspire imperfect men to write flawless, and perfect interpretations? -
19
Oral Review?
by averyniceguy inmy parents said that they are having oral review tonight at the kh.
how long is the oral review?
-
-
Zico
The oral review replaced the written review a few years ago.
Instead of a written exam, it's basically now a question-and-answer session. There are 15 questions, and it's based on parts of the Theocratic Ministry School over the last 2 months. Last about... 30 minutes I think. -
15
What is most important for a typical JW
by Nosferatu inwhat, in your opinion, is most important thing for a typical jw?
what affects him in his day to day life?
what causes them to make the decisions they do?
-
-
Zico
Trying to gain entry into the Paradise Earth can be a big thing as well imo.
-
25
Question : What is the REAL purpose of the Watchtower Organisation ?
by AlphaOmega inwhat is the real purpose of the watchtower organisation (and associated companies) ?.
it has been suggested that the purpose is :.
exactly as claimed (to preach the good news)a front for a publishing company (selling literature to a captive audience)a front for a real-estate companyare there any more ideas ?.
-
-
Zico
Hi AO. I've had to write a long post to get all my thoughts across here!
'You summed up the "rise to the top" well, there is indeed no guarantee of power. But those at the top must gain from it somehow. Or are the all sincere but deluded ?'
One of my closest friends in the Jehovah's Witness religion became a Ministerial Servant about 6 months ago. He was a good guy, 'sincere but deluded' he reached out and put a lot of work into becoming an MS. Once he was appointed, he became very arrogant, almost overnight. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that nobody receives an appointment unless Jehovah's holy spirit guides it so the appointment is made. Status can change people. They don't see it themselves, but it does happen. When you're told you're a Ministerial Servant because God himself has selected you to be one, it's no surprise it might make someone think they're something special. I've seen this arrogance develop in people other than my friend within the Society. My parents have seen it happen to their older friends when they become elders.
When some Witnesses get a small part in this special feeling, they begin to crave it more. They work hard to move further up. Being an MS soon becomes not enough, they have to become elders to fulfill their crave, then that's not enough, and they want to be Presiding Overseer. They want Service meeting talks, then that's not enough, and they need Public talks, then they need talks at Assemblies and then Conventions. It's all to gain that feeling that 'I am special, Jehovah is blessing me' and even in some cases 'I am progressing more than that person, Jehovah obviously loves me more than him' And that's gonna be a good feeling.
The higher you go, and the more you give in the Organisation, the more praise you get. Jehovah's Witnesses love Circuit Overseers, they love District Overseers, they think they are wonderful and that they can do no wrong, and they make this clear to the Overseers. If becoming an MS will change people, becoming a Circuit Overseer or District Overseer, and even higher will surely change people.
I think, each member of the Governing Body started off as 'sincere but deluded' entering full time service because they think it's what God wants. They push to become higher to fulfill their need to be special. They may not want Governing Body at first, most people will not reach this as they're not capable, or not in the position to, they probably just target the next step up the ladder each time it comes, and only when they get closer to it will it become the goal. Once they've reached that goal, they're then told God himself selected them to look after all his possessions on Earth. Once again, it's no surprise it might make someone think they're something special. Facing that they're wrong and letting go of it, especially when considering they have no lives outside of Bethel, and nowhere to turn, would take a lot of courage, that few people would have. And so, the Society's wheel keeps on turning, some at the top may realise it's nonsense, but they can't make too many changes because that will result in a loss of control, and a loss of control will result in them having to face they've wasted their lives, and that God has nothing to do with them.
A big thing when they've spent it believing God himself has controlled their rise to leader of the Organisation, and future king of the world.
'It seems to me that slowly they are eradicating the damage that Rutherford did. They are erasing his doctrines.'
I (respectfully!) disagree. Whilst they are erasing some of his wacky doctrines they've held on to the damaging doctrines and policies. The doctrines they've replaced rarely have any affect on JW lives. Rutherford introduced the large amounts of time in Service, the control over Witnesses, the blood policy, he took away holidays, and told them not to go to College, to ignore their own wellbeing in place of Jehovah's (The Org). If anything they've got worse, as it was Knorr who introduced disfellowshipping to the extremity it is in now. And the current Governing body has shown no signs that they will make changes and lessen the control, recent Watchtowers have, in fact, suggested the opposite.
All IMHO, of course! ;) But it would seem to fit in with what I've experienced on a local level, what I've read on this board, and what I've learned from reading Ray Franz's books and corresponding with him. -
24
the TOWER ANSWERS BACK on NGO
by tula inwho is responsible for this website operation?
is the tower hidden under this?
know your ngos!
-
-
Zico
That's 3rdWitness' site. He used to post here.
He's an apologist, it's not official. -
25
Question : What is the REAL purpose of the Watchtower Organisation ?
by AlphaOmega inwhat is the real purpose of the watchtower organisation (and associated companies) ?.
it has been suggested that the purpose is :.
exactly as claimed (to preach the good news)a front for a publishing company (selling literature to a captive audience)a front for a real-estate companyare there any more ideas ?.
-
-
Zico
I don't know if anyone can provide solid evidence that it's a money-driven Organisation. Ray Franz was in the best position to know, and he never commented on the financial side of the Watchtower.
Their actions seem to suggest a large interest in money, but since none of the leaders are making money I would guess they want the money for survival of the Society, and survival of the Society because it makes them important and gives them power, though most of them must believe it's the truth before they reach the top, because it takes a lot of effort to get there, with no guarantee of power.
I can only provide opinion, but I think Russell started off with a genuine intention, and Rutherford took it over with the intention of using it to gain money, power and adoration. Everyone following Rutherford was possibly, as Ray Franz said 'followers of followers, victims of victims' -
14
Revelation - Locusts
by LtCmd.Lore injohn reports: and they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of god on their foreheads.
and in those days the men will seek death but will by no means find it, and they will desire to die but death keeps fleeing from them.revelation 9:4-6.. .
next problem:.
-
-
Zico
Good analysis Lore.
What I like about the Revelation book is the way it constantly goes on about how God has rejected Christendom because they didn't join the Jehovah's Witnesses in preaching about God's nearing kingdom. And yet...
Luke 21:8 [Jesus] replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.
So Christendom has been condemned for not doing something Jesus told people not to do??? -
39
New arrangement for field service?
by Zico ini don't know if this is a worldwide thing because i didn't go the meeting where the arrangement was announced, but it's being done in my congregation anyway.
during those 6 months the member assigned to the pioneer is meant to make time to work with the pioneer as much as possible, so they can strengthen each other.
the idea is meant to be that eventually each member of the congregation will get a go.
-
-
Zico
Interesting. It won't work in my Congregation either. My Dad is an elder, and he said, and I quote 'It's a load of s**t'
Clam,
Whilst it's been said that the pioneers are meant to work with everyone, I'm sure it's only designed for the weak ones, they probably just don't want to say this to try to avoid making the selected look 'weak'. Which, it will do anyway, of course.