Hopefully is available in Adobe format by clicking on the link.
Posts by dozy
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19WTS account for Britain (2005)
by dozy inhopefully is available in adobe format by clicking on the link.. http://www.box.net/public/podqx6rrkb.
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356
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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dozy
If a large, successful, and intensive preaching campaign is what proves God's spirit is with a religion, the Evangelicals have it nailed down tightly. They are everywhere JWs are, and well beyond. Are they? Other than their bizarre TV evangelising efforts filled with demands for money and wild emotional sing-songs and appeals which immediately put off any right minded person , I've never , ever , ever had any contact whatsoever by them (other than when I call on them in the ministry). And I live in an area popular with evangelicals who regularly establish new churches when they fall out with each other. There is a man who shouts at hapless passerbys in the street occasionally , before the police move him on. Does that count as "an intensive preaching campaign?"
Even the Mormons outdo JWs. By a lot. "But," JWs respond, "they teach things that aren't true, though!" In fairness , the Mormons have some fairly bizarre beliefs and would admit that they have relegated the bible to second place behind the book of Mormon (which is demonstrably false) - it contains large swathes of the book of Isaiah from the KJV including translation errors despite supposedly being written hundreds of years previously. The preaching is limited to young evangelists on a 2 year tour of duty - the average r & f Mormon doesn't preach or even have much knowledge of their beliefs.
If a successful worldwide preaching work IS THE MARK, then JWs are beat out by several other religions. Such as?
If accurately teaching the Bible is the mark, then JWs are no better than any other and worse than some. I'll agree that they are no better than some other chuches. Accuracy is difficult to establish.
If "love among yourselves" is the mark, JWs finish poorly among the religions I have seen. What other religious order refuses to go to war and kill fellow members in other countries?
If reliance on the teachings of men who proclaimed themselves to be chosen by God is the mark, JWs have no peers and must be the true religion.
The above is why some (including my friend previously mentioned) feel that despite all their faults , there is some merit in JWism , and why they point to the preaching work as some support for their religion. I make no claim to be an apologist - I have tremendous doubts myself. However , I do not share Auldsoul's view that Jehovah's witnesses (or more specifically their leadership) are corrupt or evil - I take the view that they are simply sincere , honest men who try hard to discern principles and prophecies from scripture but who are misguided when they claim that they inhabit the sole channel of direction and holy spiri and who have "gone beyond what is written" in imposing further laws on their flock.
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What Message is the GB Giving Mature Ones at Bethel With a Massive Lay Off?
by frankiespeakin ini wonder how this is effecting the morale of those mature ones still at bethel?
the governing body is in effect telling every one there you are all just pieces of shit to us(gb) and we can get rid of you any time we want because you are all just pieces of shit to us.
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dozy
Just my 2p - from a corporate perspective , I'm sure that the Org is being very careful whom they let go , with the most lobotmised devoted JWs getting the push. Any who are slighly "off message" and inclined towards "independent thinking" should be retained (on the "better inside the tent p***ing out than outside the tent p***ing in" basis) as if these ones are given responsibilities such as CO & DO positions , they could do untold damage , espeically if they are bitter.
And far better that they are sent to some far out post (Hicksville , North Dakota) than to a city where they would have authority and a degree of influence. Ironically , it is in the cities , with the huge number of immigrants , where the real growth and potential exists.
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356
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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dozy
I'm also an elder - currently giving talks at circuit assemblies / special days / pioneered for years etc. Disillusioned - putting my energy into "looking after the flock" and encouraging Christian qualities rather than a blind devotion to the org.
A brother gave the baptism talk recently at an assembly who I know feels similar to myself. The outlines for baptism talks currently involve a discussion of the 2 baptism questions and I was interested how he would develop the controversial second question which was changed in the '80s. He deviated from the outline , stressing that this was the most difficult part of being a witness as the Org was run by imperfect men and had made many mistakes. His argument was that all he had ever learned from the bible was by being a witness and that no other org was conducting such a huge preaching campaign. He spoke about the love and brotherhood that exists. Nevertheless , we didn't dedicate ourselves to a religious corporation - ultimately we were dedicated to God and individually accountable to him , regardless of the actions of others , including those in authority. This was carefully phrased to avoid being pulled over the coals by the Bethel rep (if he was listening anyway - most don't bother).
It does involve a degree of "mental accommodation" to come to this position and there undoubtedly is difficulty in maintaining it on a long term basis - in a sense I am awaiting the final nail in the coffin. My hope is that reform isn't far off - perhaps the liberal "coup" that was quashed in the late 70's will succeed in the second half of this decade as the old school (including Jarasz) die off. Perhaps even now , as in Thailand , the forces are gathering.
As to whether Bethel would be affected by any experiences or information on this site - I doubt this. They have an institutionalised mentality - dismissing any criticism as "Korah" like apostasy. Even feedback from senior Branch representatives is ignored. A friend who has long worked in international construction all over the world and who has had many dealings with "higher ups" told me "The GB don't listen. They never listen."
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18
DA by making own announcement at KH
by Alligator Wisdom ina brother would state that he is "no longer a jehovah's witness" after his part on the service meeting.
a sister would state the same after her talk on the tms.
or anyone for that matter can express such after making a comment at the watchtower study.
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dozy
I saw someone do this back in the nineties - a disaffected ex-witness enrolled on the school purely so he could rant on for five minutes and disassociate himself. The congregation was shaken and the brother's family were very upset. An official announcement by the elders was made a few weeks later (it would always be announced to the congregation in these circumstances).
I suspect these kind of announcements are designed to flatter the ego of the disassociated one rather than anything else - they tend to leave a nasty taste in the audience. In that respect , I guess that they are self defeating , if the purpose is to use the platform as an opportunity to give a "witness". Mind you - it does go down well in ex-witness / apostate circles - they can dine out on the story for years!
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Are "Apostates" jumping the gun with their info on the WT to make a case?
by booker-t ini take some of the things apostates say with a "grain of salt" because many times i think they embellish the truth to make the wt look bad to make their case.
for example i have for years heard that the wt uses "satanic" images in their artwork but i have yet to see any proof of these accusations.
i have heard that jw's no longer practice "disfellowshipping" but my teenage niece was recently "disfellowshipped".
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dozy
I take some of the things Apostates say with a "grain of salt" because many times I think they embellish the truth to make the WT look bad to make their case.
What has disillusioned me with much of my research into ex-witness / apostate information is the dishonesty and often downright lies that are spread by ex-witnesses / apostates.
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85
Has anyone read this article..
by earthtone init broke my heart to read about someone having to paying court fee's after wining a sexual abuse case against the wtbts.
she ended up winning 5,000 dollars but has to pay 220000 dollars in court feee to wtbts and for her lawyer.
crazy!.
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dozy
It broke my heart to read about someone having to paying court fee's after wining a sexual abuse case against the WTBTS.
(1) She didn't win the case.
(2) The WTS waived the fees.
Will Silentlambs be publishing a retraction? Or is their sole agenda to print damaging stories against the WTS regardless of truth?
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Is it time for some new GB members?
by dozy init must be white smoke time shortly at brooklyn , following the death of 2 members in the last year.. by all accounts , there can only be 7 active members....... herd (71 years old) , jackson (51) , lett (57) , losch (63) , morris (56) , pierce (71) and splane (62).. the other 3 are all very aged.
barber (101) is confined to bed , jaracz is in his eighties and (allegedly) has heart trouble and a friend who met jack barr (now 93 years old) in the london bethel this year reckoned that this would be the last time he would be travelling over to the uk as he is very , very frail now.. with new, "grafted in" anointed ones very thin on the ground (and most regarded as certifiable by the r & f) , it is increasingly difficult for the gb to constantly appoint credible new members every few years.
for years now , the wts has increasingly been talking up the growing influence the non-anointed ones (nethinim , "chieftain class etc) are having in wts affairs - is it now the time for "new light"?
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dozy
It must be white smoke time shortly at Brooklyn , following the death of 2 members in the last year.
By all accounts , there can only be 7 active members......
Herd (71 years old) , Jackson (51) , Lett (57) , Losch (63) , Morris (56) , Pierce (71) and Splane (62).
The other 3 are all very aged. Barber (101) is confined to bed , Jaracz is in his eighties and (allegedly) has heart trouble and a friend who met Jack Barr (now 93 years old) in the London Bethel this year reckoned that this would be the last time he would be travelling over to the UK as he is very , very frail now.
With new, "grafted in" anointed ones very thin on the ground (and most regarded as certifiable by the R & F) , it is increasingly difficult for the GB to constantly appoint credible new members every few years. For years now , the WTS has increasingly been talking up the growing influence the non-anointed ones (Nethinim , "chieftain class etc) are having in WTS affairs - is it now the time for "new light"? OS members on the GB (but perhaps in some kind of secondary , advisory / observer role)?
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Street Witnessing in Conyers, GA (rather long, but IMO cool experience)
by AuldSoul inthis is a long experience, i am trying to get it down while still fresh in mind.
my hope is that some might be aided in their approach to jws by reading this, but i dunno.
read if you want to, don't read if you don't want to, and that way you'll have no business being annoyed by my having posted it.
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dozy
Re- Jehovah God is the only "true" God , hence Jesus must be either (1) part of a godhead or (2) a false God. As (2) is obviously incorrect , then (1) is the correct answer.
Looks like you have been taking some lessons from the WT writers in specious , circular arguments. It is disappointing that the JW (albeit in her 80's) was flumoxed by this approach. Perhaps it was more intended to take the JW out of her terms of reference , by introducing a argument (although specious) which she had never come across.
I would have answered it by asking if referring to a company boss as the only "honest" boss inferred that all his employees , including his second in command , were dishonest. As this clearly is not inferred , then the argument is false. And as Mondo1 correctly states , the original Greek does not support your interpretation.
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Who went on the British Museum Trips?
by Moomin ina while ago someone had put a photo on here that was taken at the british museum.
it was of something with the date of the fall of jerusalem inprinted on it.
i can't find the thread.
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dozy
Our cong booked the tour a few years ago through Meander - I see that they are still trading http://www.meander.co.uk/
Unsure of the company status - presume it is owned by (enterprising) brothers.