I take some of the things Apostates say with a "grain of salt" because many times I think they embellish the truth to make the WT look bad to make their case. For example I have for years heard that the WT uses "Satanic" images in their artwork but I have yet to see any proof of these accusations. I have heard that JW's no longer practice "Disfellowshipping" but my teenage niece was recently "Disfellowshipped". I think Apostates become like crooked police officers that are trying to get rid of drug dealers and plant drugs in their cars just to get an arrest. Apostates seem to act the same way. I have been an ex-jws for many years and alot of the stuff Apostates come up with are true such as the UN scandal, Child Abuse in the congos and date setting by the WTS. But alot of stuff is just manufactured lies to prove their case against the WT. Tell the truth at all times Apostates don't start doing things you accuse JW's leaders of doing like bending the truth. Jesus said it best the truth will set you free.
Are "Apostates" jumping the gun with their info on the WT to make a case?
the so called apostates have only scratched the surface even most fact is met with derision , I don't even think they need to lie just get people to look at fact from the lying , evil, peado protecting , corrupt, spin doctoring wts
You are right, apostates do often overstate their case: The UN thing; So-called misquotes; Satanic images; Franz not reading Hebrew; Rutherford killing Russell... blah de blah it goes on and on.
It seems the desire to 'prove' the Witnesses wrong often overrides good judgement, and the worst possible motives are imputed to Witness leaders at every turn.
But I have realised there is no need to 'prove' the Witnesses wrong. All one needs to do is ask whether the Witnesses provide enough evidence for believing that they have the truth. The reality is that they provide nowhere near enough evidence that one would reasonably require to substantiate the considerable claims they make. The process of being convinced that it is the 'truth' in the first place was for me largely a systematic shelving of issues to the back on my mind, rather than a rigorous airing of them in the cold light of evidence.
Jehovah's Witnesses provide a comprehensive narrative for interpreting the world around us, but what does not squeeze into the mould has to be put to one side mentally. As time goes on in the Witnesses the amount of 'stuff' that has been laid to one side as incompatible inevitably grows and grows until it reaches a crisis point for many.
Apostates often pose the question - what is the best proof that it is not the truth?
I would answer that the most compelling evidence is the considerable lack of good reasons for believing it is the truth.
Why should we have to think up reasons for it not being the truth?
Simply pointing to the complete failure on the part of the Witnesses to prove their case that they have the 'truth' should be enough.
We don't feel we have to prove that Sikhs are wrong or Jains or Hindus, why treat Jehovah's WItnesses any different?
booker-t, while your basic call for people to tell the truth is on the money, your lumping all JW critics into one uniform group of "Apostates" is ridiculous. You're still thinking in JW terms, where people only do things in connection with some organization they're part of, and are in unity with it. So note well: There is no such thing as "Apostates". There is only a diverse group of individuals who have in common the fact that they've quit the JW cult. So if you disagree with what certain individuals have done, take it up with them.
Apostate here (as defined by the WT Society)
If there is one thing you learn upon leaving JWs, it should be to question authority and critical thinking. If you don't you are liable to be caught up in the next scam you bump into.
This forum is no different, and makes no claims that everything posted is valid or legitimate. It is up to you, dear reader, to decide that for yourself.
Regarding a statement above by booker-t, regarding "embellished truth":
I have heard that JW's no longer practice "Disfellowshipping" but my teenage niece was recently "Disfellowshipped".
Here are the facts: JWs do practice disfellowshipping and disassociation. However, a recent change regarding the announcements of DF and DA. The issue is to be non-specific.
From the Organized to Do Jehovah's Will (2005):
When it is necessary to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation, a brief announcement is made, simply stating: "[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." There is no need to elaborate. This will alert faithful members of the congregation to stop associating with that person.
You can see by even booker-t's statements that misinformation continues to be spread by those who do not make a serious effort to research the facts.
So in a way, booker-t is the subject of his own post. Well done.
I hate that word "Apostate". It instantly reduces the validity of anyone on this forum. This was a label slapped on by the WBTS for most people, not a self selected description or title.
Some here may disagree but I think most of us are just out and trading information, stories and support.
I agree some may go overboard, but for the most part what I read here can be proven. If you don't like the post, you don't have to respond, and no one here is obligated to swallow anything hook line and sinker like where we came from.
Just my 2 cents.
I think you are right, sometimes they do go over the top. But the Witnesses do the same thing when they are trying to prove Christianity is bad and wrong. They say stuff like we are the only religion that teaches all over the world. That is so wrong. They make a general statement like that and the rank and file will never check to see if it is true they just believe it. They do have images in their pictures though. I've seen them. There is a web site that has them posted. I will see if I can hunt it down and post it for you.
booker-t: don't start doing things you accuse JW's leaders of doing like bending the truth.
I agree with this statement. Which is why I am such a stickler for accuracy of statement when it comes to accusations of wrongdoing. If there is EVER a time to be sure of your grounds and choose words carefully, that's the time.
For example I have for years heard that the WT uses "Satanic" images in their artwork but I have yet to see any proof of these accusations.
If you will check out some of the threads on this site that discuss subliminal artwork, you will find that the majority of posters on here attribute zero validity to these claims. There is a tiny minority of people who like to hold illustrations up to a mirror to create unintended images. Again, as Alan pointed out, were are all individuals with a single common denominator - we all left the WTS.
Slim: We don't feel we have to prove that Sikhs are wrong or Jains or Hindus, why treat Jehovah's WItnesses any different?
Hee-hee! Good one.
Are you serious? You really don't know this one? I find that surprising, but just in case you ARE serious...the answers are simple.
(1) We KNOW this religion inside and out.
(2) This religion claims to be the only path to an acceptable relationship with God and the only way to salvation.
(3) This religion claims to have been chosen by God as God's only mouthpiece to the world.
(4) It is as easy to take their doctrines apart Scripturally as it is to dismantle a tower of playing cards.
(5) Waking people up to their reality is a fun and inexpensive hobby.
There ya' go.