I can confirm. The letter was read in our congregation this week. The public talk is 30 minutes. The watchtower stays the same. The explanation was that it would allow for more time to 'fellowship',participate in field service, and reduce contention among congregations that share a single hall. This reason falls apart for several reasons: 1. Fellowship - most people fellowship(if at all) after the meetings. Shorting the talk really doesn't do anything for that especially just 15 minutes. 2. Participate in field service - Again what does 15 minutes really do in that sense? Does it really save that much time? 3. Reduce contention among congregations sharing a hall - Everyone knows that the BOE have some freedom in establishing meeting times. If congestion was a problem the elders at the local level would simply adjust the time, like ours did by 30 minutes. I think the real reason is that they are trying to force the brothers to stick to the outline and not add material\illustrations. The 'good' brothers try to spice these boring talks up, but that naturally leads to interjection of personal interpretation and not Service Desk(where the talks are written) interpretation. In fact it was specifically mentioned that no 'new' outlines are currently being provided and that the brothers should reduce their talks by cutting out lengthy introductions and conclusions and to share the main scriptual points. Also, I think they are further trying to show that the Watchtower study is the main point of coming to the Sunday meeting. I've had brothers tell me before that the public talk was just 'filler' time and if you had to choose between the Watchtower or Public Talk the watchtower wins. We also had a letter on ordering the new watchtower(Public vs Study Editions). The cover won't change on the Study Edition other than the list of study articles will be on the front.(Much like the current large print watchtower edition), except I suspect they will have some pictures and illustrations. After the meeting I asked one of the elders if since the Watchtower - Study Edition was meant for "baptized witnesses and those making spiritual progress"(the letter words, not mine), would we after the meeting be asking for the general public to leave? Is that why the small change of viewing the two as a seperate meeting with the watchtower conductor being asked up on the stage before the song is happening? He didn't give me an answer, he just said, "Big changes, big changes." Although big changes with this organization is always relative. Here is my theory, nothing to back it up. I think that this will happen only in the U.S. and European countries where attendance is low and "apostasy" and leaks abound. I say that because the letter about the watchtower changes said that not all countries would have separate public and study editions. I see in the future where the Watchtower study will be broken into its own meeting on a separate day. The public meeting will consist just of the 30 minute talk, since that is the average person's attention span, and that will be it for Sundays, or maybe they will move the book study to Sunday. I do tend to ramble. Sorry if my post is confusing.
jah1914
JoinedPosts by jah1914
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Public talk will be reduced to 30 minutes
by martinjw7 inhave you heard about a letter for all congregations announced next new change in wts politics?.
in letter is information that the time for the public talk will be reduced to 30 minutes.. does anyone have a copy?
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Do the dubs know WHY there delivering Kingdom News 37?
by truthseeker ini just got my copy of the sep km.
there's an article, about 6 paragraphs inside about the "false religions end is near" campaign.. i was surprised that the first paragraoh didn't even tell the dubs why they were doing this campaign.
they left the explanation to a couple of vague sentences in the last paragraph about how false religion's end is near.. it seems that the dubs don't know why they're doing this, only that they have to do it and place their 50 copies.. odd..
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jah1914
Don't post here often. Something else is strange about(at least from what I can remember) the witnesses are being asked to record the number of tracts they personally place. That seems new to me for a campaign. I wonder if a 'seperating' work is going on? Maybe publishers who do not distribute the tract will be on an apostate 'watch' list.
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OK believers, time to put up or shut up...
by Gregor inapparently, a large percentage of xjw's who post on this site have embraced some other form of god/jesus belief to replace the wt doctrine.
most of them fall into the "i accept the lord jesus christ as my personal savior" class.
they are still extremely attached to the old "forgiveness of sin through the shed blood of jc" line.
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jah1914
AuldSoul,
I noticed that Gregor refuses to answer you as well. As someone who limps between belief and disbelief I must say you have given a most reasoned approach. At least more reasoned than anything I have heard. It actually has me thinking. I even printed this entire thread out. Gregor, Kid-A I think that if you are being honest with yourselves, even if you don't agree with AuDSoul you must at least acknowledge that he articulated his position well.
So Gregor......we all await your logical response to AuldSoul. I'm sure you have one or you wouldn't have made the original challenge to 'put up or shut up'. So will you prove true to your own request? Will you 'put up or shut up'. Thus far it appears you have chosen to shut up.
Regards
jah1914 -
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Are Internet Apostates making the tower wobble?
by unclebruce inyaddayadda has an interesting post about us taking the fight directly back to the congregations.
all fine and dandy if you can stomach that type of thing.
i on the other hand think internet apostates should continue doing what they do best (and most enjoy).
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jah1914
Jeff - never mind saw this on another post. But you wrote it exactly like it came from headquaters. That was pretty good.
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Are Internet Apostates making the tower wobble?
by unclebruce inyaddayadda has an interesting post about us taking the fight directly back to the congregations.
all fine and dandy if you can stomach that type of thing.
i on the other hand think internet apostates should continue doing what they do best (and most enjoy).
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jah1914
Jeff - Where is this quote from? Is this for real? Is this a pre-release of a real Watchtower article? if so I bet they won't recommend that this one be distributed to the mass public. This will probably come in the form of a letter.
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Question for JWs still on the "inside":
by Hellrider injust a question: if you are still jws (for any reason, many just can`t leave because their entire families are wrapped around it, etc), but don`t believe in it, and lead a "double life", how do you cope with going door to door?
i just can`t imagine how it must feel like to go out there and try to tell people at the doors or in the streets things you know are just bs!
how do you deal with that?
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jah1914
Wow that post did not format right.....=)
I know there is something on this board about double posting, but I am still getting the hang of the formatting. Please forgive me, but I want Kid-A, Serendipity and Hellrider to actually be able to read what I wrote. Here it goes.....
Kid-A,Serendipity,HellRider Thank you for your feedback.
Kid-A - I honestly see your perspective, but I honestly do not peddle magazines. I think that if we look at some of the articles honestly, we will see that some of them are very good. When I come across articles like that I photocopy them and give them to whomever I am talking to, again...they are just one of many tools that anyone who wants to talk about God could use. Please see some of my comments below to Serendipity and Hellrider if you are interested.
Serendipity - I guess that is why I say I must have grew up in a time warp or something. My dad has been an elder since I was born and he never taught us to put faith in anything other Jesus and his Father. I have never been taught that the FDS is infalliable or that they alone preach the truth. Maybe people cut us slack because of what my parents have been through. My dad has been deleted and stepped down many times by different bodies of elders for obeying the dictates of his conscience, only later to have been reappointed after some new article or adjustment in beliefs later upheld his bible-trained view.
Through it all he has always maintained that 'helping' sheep was the most important thing. He has always taught us to consider ourselves 'christians' first and has always discouraged us from identifying ourselves as 'JWs'. Where some of the teachings make biblical sense, we follow them, not because the FDS or a baptist preacher or a methodist minister tells us to, but because the bible we spend so much time studying and asking God to help us do his will by tells us to. We were taught it doesn't matter the source of truth, if you perceive it as truth then follow it. If it is something you bible trained conscience does not allow you to believe it don't and God will reward you for being truthful. But my dad would always say, the only obligation or belief you need is love.
I don't know why people don't bother me. I certainly believe and have witnessed people being disfellowshipped for similiar things. I don't know. But I can honestly say that I do say all the things that I mentioned and I have never had a problem. Understand, I don't make those things the focus of my conversations with people inside or outside the congregation trying to prove myself right because again, what do I owe anyone other than love? Maybe that is why no one has bothered me to this point, I don't feel the need to point these things out and try to correct things that can only be corrected by God. I know this is cliche, but we really are all imperfect, even the ones that believe that collectively they can't be(FDS?) I also am humble enough to realize I could be wrong.
Sometimes I wonder, Is Jesus really going to say to an individual at Har-Meggdon, "Hey you lived a upright life and followed me with your whole heart, but you know.....you got that 1914 thing all wrong...to the goat pen with you." or "you know you were not an upright person, but you got the date for my presence right. ...to the sheep pen with you." What does your heart tell you? Mine tells me such doctrinal issues are not important. Don't get me wrong...I could be wrong...but that is something God will have to judge me and me alone on.
Hellrider - you are absolutely right. I have never been a JW. I have always(since my baptism) been a christian pursuing the mind of Christ.
For whatever reason God has placed me in association with this group of people who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, who when we boil it all down are not really 'evil' people. Just people in different stages of there walk(some of them christian walk) who face all the same pressures and problems everyone else does. We all need help, why should leave and go help others, when God has already put me in association with people that need help?
I tend to ramble, so I'm going to stop typing, but again I appreciate you guys taking the time address me personally in a non-judgemental way.
Until we speak again
Agape -
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Question for JWs still on the "inside":
by Hellrider injust a question: if you are still jws (for any reason, many just can`t leave because their entire families are wrapped around it, etc), but don`t believe in it, and lead a "double life", how do you cope with going door to door?
i just can`t imagine how it must feel like to go out there and try to tell people at the doors or in the streets things you know are just bs!
how do you deal with that?
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jah1914
Kid-A,Serendipity,HellRider Thank you for your feedback. Kid-A - I honestly see your perspective, but I honestly do not peddle magazines. I think that if we look at some of the articles honestly, we will see that some of them are very good. When I come across articles like that I photocopy them and give them to whomever I am talking to, again...they are just one of many tools that anyone who wants to talk about God could use. Please see some of my comments below to Serendipity and Hellrider if you are interested. Serendipity - I guess that is why I say I must have grew up in a time warp or something. My dad has been an elder since I was born and he never taught us to put faith in anything other Jesus and his Father. I have never been taught that the FDS is infalliable or that they alone preach the truth. Maybe people cut us slack because of what my parents have been through. My dad has been deleted and stepped down many times by different bodies of elders for obeying the dictates of his conscience, only later to have been reappointed after some new article or adjustment in beliefs later upheld his bible-trained view. Through it all he has always maintained that 'helping' sheep was the most important thing. He has always taught us to consider ourselves 'christians' first and has always discouraged us from identifying ourselves as 'JWs'. Where some of the teachings make biblical sense, we follow them, not because the FDS or a baptist preacher or a methodist minister tells us to, but because the bible we spend so much time studying and asking God to help us do his will by tells us to. We were taught it doesn't matter the source of truth, if you perceive it as truth then follow it. If it is something you bible trained conscience does not allow you to believe it don't and God will reward you for being truthful. But my dad would always say, the only obligation or belief you need is love. I don't know why people don't bother me. I certainly believe and have witnessed people being disfellowshipped for similiar things. I don't know. But I can honestly say that I do say all the things that I mentioned and I have never had a problem. Understand, I don't make those things the focus of my conversations with people inside or outside the congregation trying to prove myself right because again, what do I owe anyone other than love? Maybe that is why no one has bothered me to this point, I don't feel the need to point these things out and try to correct things that can only be corrected by God. I know this is cliche, but we really are all imperfect, even the ones that believe that collectively they can't be(FDS?) I also am humble enough to realize I could be wrong. But sometimes I wonder, Is Jesus really going to say to an individual at Har-Meggdon, "Hey you lived a upright life and followed me with your whole heart, but you know.....you got that 1914 thing all wrong...to the goat pen with you." or "you know you were not an upright person, but you got the date for my presence right. ...to the sheep pen with you." What does your heart tell you? Mine tells me such doctrinal issues are not important. Don't get me wrong...I could be wrong...but that is something God will have to judge me and me alone on. Hellrider - you are absolutely right. I have never been a JW. I have always(since my baptism) been a christian pursuing the mind of Christ. For whatever reason God has placed me in association with this group of people who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, who when we boil it all down are not really 'evil' people. Just people in different stages of there walk(some of them christian walk) who face all the same pressures and problems everyone else does. We all need help, why should leave and go help others, when God has already put me in association with people that need help? I tend to ramble, so I'm going to stop typing, but again I appreciate you guys taking the time address me personally in a non-judgemental way. Until we speak again Agape
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Question for JWs still on the "inside":
by Hellrider injust a question: if you are still jws (for any reason, many just can`t leave because their entire families are wrapped around it, etc), but don`t believe in it, and lead a "double life", how do you cope with going door to door?
i just can`t imagine how it must feel like to go out there and try to tell people at the doors or in the streets things you know are just bs!
how do you deal with that?
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jah1914
This statement only applies to only to those who want to be or consider themselves Christians.
I must have grown up in a timewarp or something. There is no conflict or bad feelings that anybody should have about talking about God. Leading people to Jesus is a Christian responsibility. Period....you should be free to use whatever tool that you personally decide will help you to do that.If that is a Watchtower and Awake fine. Sometimes I use other non-JW religious literature at the door. For a time I was placing the 'MESSAGE' paraphrase with people. I know this sounds crazy, but I have never encountered any problems with any in the hall and I'm still an active witness and was an elder up to a year ago.(At least no one has said anything to my face.). For me it seems that when I just speak the truth from my heart and don't try to anticipate what the other JWs might say, it just works out for me.
Personally I use the bible mainly and speak the truth. When I go out in service, if some asks if the witnesses are the true relgion. I tell them the truth, no, but there probably are some true christian in the organization. If they ask about pedophiles(and some have). I tell them the truth(that is possible that all those things are going on). I tell them that 1914 seems wrong to me as well as 144,000(with people around), but that doctrine is not the important thing.
-------I digress
The bottom-line is that if we believe in God and the bible, than we know that God is going to deal with us individually and so that is all I try to get them to focus on. Their relationship with God. Does anything else really even matter? Don't get me wrong, all the things I read on the various boards are certainly interesting and eye-opening and most of it is probably true. But in the final anaylis I'm left with what does any of those doctrines have to do with my relationship with Jesus.
------end of digression
Jesus never really talked alot about doctrine, just relationships(with God and with man). So that's what I focus on, not trying to indoctrinate people.
When I study with people I don't try to convince to do anything other than be a disciple of Jesus. Believe it or not it seems to work and I have suffered nothing at the hands of JW elders or anything else. -
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Would you???
by BlessedStar inyou've heard about jesus.. you've choosen to believe or not to believe.. you've accepted jesus or you haven't.. let's say jesus came down now for his people.what would you do or say to jesus if you now know he is true?
(keeping in mind that god is the judge and some people will go to heaven and most will burn in hell!!).
blessedstar
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jah1914
I wouldn't ask him anything. I would just prepare to die and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
BlessedStar - I noticed you never answered AlmostAtheist question. What if Allah came to you and was real, what would you ask him? -
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Am I a JW or not? Year of Baptisim and year of falling away.
by truth about the last days ini put this page on just to know how many jws there are on this site.
i am sure that we all will be intrested to know as to who stands where.
i am only requesting if we are a jw or not, the year we got baptized and the year that we decided to leave.
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jah1914
New to this board. Baptized in the spirit of (Matt 28:19,20) 10-1990 @ 16 yrs old.
Still associate with the Christians at the Kingdom Hall(there are some good people at the KH believe it or not)
Appointed elder at 22 yrs old. Stepped down last year, not a JW defender, but a defender of Christianity as a way of improving your life.(The jury is still out if Christianity is the only way to salvation - guess we will know when God let's us know)
Oddly enough - never taught by my parents to completely trust the FDS and that my only head was Jesus(and my parents)
Went to college during the height of the anti-college wave. Oh I forgot this is not a biography.
Sorry......