onacruse

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Posts by onacruse

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  30

  2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?

  by Sirona in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just can't see the answer to this question.

  it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.

  "among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".

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  onacruse

  Hi, Sirona! Hope everything is going well with you!

  The debate over the meaning of this verse has been going on for many centuries. For example:

  Barnes New Testament Notes: "There can be no doubt that Satan is here designated by this appellation; though some of the Fathers supposed that it means the true God and Clarke inclines to this opinion."

  Calvin's Commentaries: "No one that judges rightly can have any doubt, that it is of Satan that the Apostle speaks. Hilary, as he had to do with Arians, who abused this passage, so as to make it a pretext for denying Christs true divinity, while they at the same time confessed him to be God, twists the text in this way"God hath blinded the understandings of this world." In this he was afterwards followed by Chrysostom, with the view of not conceding to the Manicheans their two first principles. What influenced Ambrose does not appear. Augustine had the same reason as Chrysostom, having to contend with the Manicheans. [Calvin proceeds to quote several Scriptures showing that the term "god" applied to many others than the true God]

  Interesting that the focus of this debate had to do with the deity of Christ, rather than the simplest sense of this verse.

  However, the great preponderance of commentary identifies the "god of this system of things" as being Satan.

  Craig

  edited for: Thwacking LittleToe for beating me to this post by the merest of seconds!!!

  Edited by - onacruse on 13 August 2002 7:19:46
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  14

  Using The Word "Coward"

  by twain30 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one circuit overseer recently stated that those who are speaking against "mother" are such cowards that they can't even use their names, they hide their identity!

  so why would you want to listen to degenerates like that?.

  this called some interesting thoughts to mind: were the french resistance cowards because they hid their identities from the nazis?

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  onacruse

  Dakota, LDH: Great idea!

  In addition to my bio: I have lived in Oregon for 40 years. Went to the North Beaverton, Tigard, Hawthorne, and North Milwaukie congs. I now live in Beaverton, Oregon.

  WTS lurkers: Please say hi to Merton Campbell for me, will you? At least he had some integrity as a PR spokesman.

  LDH: The New World Trans-Obliteration ROFL

  Craig Mills

  ICQ 166955575
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  12

  NWT informative Pamphlet FYI

  by Adonai438 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  their kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:

  11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.

  gruss comments:

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  onacruse

  Adonai, thanks for this informative post. Just more evidence of the theological bias of the NWT that the WTS so vigorously denies, eh?

  One thing that gets me: while the WTS expresses some regard for other Bible translations, it is really a token gesture. They consistently ignore or attempt to debunk the scholarship of these other works, even when the evidence against the NWT is almost unanimous.

  "A fact is like a sack-it won't stand up if it's empty. To make it stand up, first you have to put in it all the reasons and feelings that caused it in the first place."
  Luigi Pirandello
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  9

  Consider Yourself Lucky

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you are df'd, da'd, or just drifted away, you may consider yourself.

  lucky that you no longer have to endure the intensifying shame.

  of telling people that you are one of jehovah's witnesses.

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  onacruse

  "You no longer have to feel the disgrace of being associated with a hard hearted, cult..."

  Absolutely.

  "...filled largely with poorly educated, emotionally damaged people."

  That would be the only reason I would go back, to help the other poor bastards still stuck there. But that's out of my hands, at least for the time being. Who knows, maybe the WTS WILL fall completely apart? At least then we can be there on the other side of the fence to help the refugees.

  Craig

  Edited by - onacruse on 13 August 2002 1:13:48
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  38

  Where To Start.....

  by Lin in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm new to posting here, although i've been reading posts on this site for some time now.

  i post often on silentlambs, but only now feel the desire to ask for some suggestions.

  here's my situation: i was raised a jw, and i'm now 42. i left the org in '95 and was also df'd, no big deal.

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  onacruse

  Hi, Lin, and welcome!

  William Barclay's Daily Study Bible Series is pretty good. Sort of pastoral with a sprinkling of technical. It must be good, because as soon as Ray Franz was dismissed from the GB, all the Bethelites hid their Barclays!!!

  Craig
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  15

  Happy B-day D8TA

  by CariocaGirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jay, .

  i know you hate this kind of stuff but i would not miss this oppty for the world!.

  happy birthday honey!!!!!!.

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  onacruse

  Yes, and 30+ is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY old!

  Congrats
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  12

  A Little Greek is a Dangerous Thing

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (apologies to any little greeks!

  you know what i mean - a guy who's had no formal training in biblical greek who keeps digging up "treasures from the original".

  i gave a couple of examples in the greek synonyms thread.. i once had an argument (by mail) with a christadelphian who was arguing that the use of the middle voice in a verse in hebrews meant that jesus had to die for his own salvation, not that of anyone else!

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  onacruse

  Ooh! Ooh! <<raising hand and jumping up and down in seat>> Let's not forget parousia!!!!!!!

  Of course, this issue is dead, because every dub takes the invisible presence of Jesus as a given.

  "Minds like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and firmly set"

  Craig

  edited to add By the way, you scoundrel!! What are you doing, starting a new thread on this subject without responding to my post on your last thread? <<getting paddle ready>>

  Edited by - onacruse on 12 August 2002 20:22:18
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  8

  I got a new job hahahahahahahah!!!!!!

  by rekless in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after a year in las vegas we got a job managing an apartment complex

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  onacruse

  If you're managing apartments, you're gonna need this:

  

  SORRY, CRAZY151DRINKER, I JUST HAD TO STEAL YOUR GUN!!!
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  9

  This place is Crazy...Still !!

  by OUTLAW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i leave the board for a few days,come back,and this place is still crazy.

  (lol)..fred got the boot,we have moderaters,bill bowen gets df.have i missed anything?i can`t figure out why simon didn`t ask me to moderate,cool tempered fellow that i am(lol,yeah right)..simon,good choice with e-man and hillary_step..so anything else new?...outlaw

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  onacruse

  Oh yeah, and Simon announced he was deleting 2500 of your posts, reducing you to Junior member. Never the the chicken coop unguarded!!!
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  13

  was adam and eve forgiven?

  by Sangdigger in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this was the subject of a recent debate with myself and some jw family members.

  i dont have all the info.

  in front of me, but i will give you just two points that i used to lean toward the idea that they were in fact, forgiven.

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  onacruse

  Eve, at least, seemed to manifest a repentant attitude:

  A Commentary on The Holy Bible (Jamieson, Fausett, Brown) comments on Gen 4:1: "Eve said, I have gotten a man from the Lord that is, "by the help of the Lord"an expression of pious gratitude and she called him Cain, that is, "a possession," as if valued above everything else; while the arrival of another son reminding Eve of the misery she had entailed on her offspring, led to the name Abel, that is, either weakness, vanity (Ps 39:5), or grief, lamentation."

  Calvin's Commentaries says: "To me, however, this seems to be the genuine sense, that while Eve congratulates herself on the birth of a son, she offers him to God, as the first-fruits of his race. Therefore, I think it ought to be translated, I have obtained a man from the Lord, which approaches more nearly the Hebrew phrase. Moreover, she calls a newborn infant a man, because she saw the human race renewed, which both she and her husband had ruined by their own fault."

  If she, and perhaps Adam, did show repentance, then there is no Scriptural statement excluding them from being resurrected. The WTS reasoning about perfect people who sin not having a hope of resurrection is a classic example of "reading between the lines."

  Craig

  edited for typos

  Edited by - onacruse on 12 August 2002 16:27:24