was adam and eve forgiven?

Sangdigger

This was the subject of a recent debate with myself and some JW family members. I dont have all the info. in front of me, but i will give you just two points that i used to lean toward the idea that they were in fact, forgiven.

Number one: God stripped them of their fig leaves, and shed an animals blood, and clothed them with skins. The fig leaves pictured mans vain attempt to cover his own sin ( works), and the shedding of an animals blood was Gods provision, also picturing the comming atonement by Christ.

The reply i got on this one, was adam and eve were cold, and God gave them a better garment.

Number two: If they were not forgiven, where did Abel learn to sacrifice burnt offerings to God? I would say the obvious answer was his folks. Unless of course God communicated directly to him on this matter.

I was given a dogmatic answer that ABSOLUTELY NOT were they forgiven, since they were perfect.

Now i realize the scriptures arent super clear on this subject, but how can you be so dogmatic one way? It would seem the evidence would favor my stand .

WHAT THINK YE ON THIS MATTER? Just want some input......

blondie

The current official WTS stance is that Adam and Eve were not forgiven and that when they died they died forever never to be resurrected because they were perfect when they deliberatedly chose to rebel against God.

If I remember right, Russell believed that they would be resurrected but Rutherford changed that official position. The light must have gotten brighter.

George Storrs was an associate of Russell and influenced him greatly. Storrs believed in the universal resurrection which would have included Adam and Eve.

Edited by - Blondie on 12 August 2002 11:23:41

pomegranate

If I remember correctly, "the wages sin pays is death."

Adam and Eve sinned. They died. They are out of debt as they payed for their sin with their lives.

But...still dead.

Now, it's what God chooses to do, give them life again, or not.

IMHU

Edited by - pomegranate on 12 August 2002 14:21:49

Yadirf

Sangdigger,

In particular, I agree with your Number two point. Ive given some thought about this question you pose before, and, like you, I think the evidence strongly suggests that there IS still hope for Adam and Eve insofar as a resurrection is concerned. However, I tend to think that they will likely be the very last two people resurrected under Christs reign. The very fact that Abel, their son, turned out in the favorable way he did suggests that his parents were not incorrigible; that is, unlike Satan and his demon followers, they were not beyond feeling sorry for having been so stupid/reckless and made an attempt at teaching their children about God. Yes Adam and Eve definitely must have taught Abel and Cain about God, and no doubt explained to them the reason why they were being raised outside the Garden of Eden with death hanging over their heads.

Unless of course God communicated directly to him [Abel] on this matter.

I tend to think that this was not the case, since, after the expulsion from Eden, the privilege of direct communication with God was lost -- and wont be regained until the reign of Christ is finished. Not before man has been brought back into the proper condition will God allow direct contact between man and himself. God only associates with those who are holy. So, therefore, I think that the things Abel and Cain knew about regarding the worship of God was taught them by their parents alone.

.

onacruse

Eve, at least, seemed to manifest a repentant attitude:

A Commentary on The Holy Bible (Jamieson, Fausett, Brown) comments on Gen 4:1: "Eve said, I have gotten a man from the Lord that is, "by the help of the Lord"an expression of pious gratitude and she called him Cain, that is, "a possession," as if valued above everything else; while the arrival of another son reminding Eve of the misery she had entailed on her offspring, led to the name Abel, that is, either weakness, vanity (Ps 39:5), or grief, lamentation."

Calvin's Commentaries says: "To me, however, this seems to be the genuine sense, that while Eve congratulates herself on the birth of a son, she offers him to God, as the first-fruits of his race. Therefore, I think it ought to be translated, I have obtained a man from the Lord, which approaches more nearly the Hebrew phrase. Moreover, she calls a newborn infant a man, because she saw the human race renewed, which both she and her husband had ruined by their own fault."

If she, and perhaps Adam, did show repentance, then there is no Scriptural statement excluding them from being resurrected. The WTS reasoning about perfect people who sin not having a hope of resurrection is a classic example of "reading between the lines."

Craig

edited for typos

Edited by - onacruse on 12 August 2002 16:27:24

joannadandy

The WTS reasoning about perfect people who sin not having a hope of resurrection is a classic example of "reading between the lines."

Exactly! Because I remember a watchtower study one time that went on and on about how Satan targets those young and new to the truth because he knows they are weak, which is why he went to Eve and not Adam. To me, by that rationale, they are saying that Eve was perhaps physically perfect, but naive...in which case, how is that her fault? And shouldn't she be forgiven then?

Yeah, I remember being 12 and asking my parents if Adam and Eve would be resurrected, to which they gave me a firm No, and me being the good little borgite that I was I said "oh ok"

Hahaha!

ImKorbenDallas

Your questions on Adam and Eve are answered at the address below.

Suffice to say God KNEW IT WOULD FAIL!!!

ADAM WAS DESIGNED TO FAIL!!

Please understand, that you cannot put new wine into OLD WINESKINS...

You will find that the Bible IS IN A CODE, but not the ELI RIPS type.

Rather like the Tree in Daniel 4, which gives seven times etc, or 2,520 years, words have more than one meaning.

Serpent = the corruption in the FDS at the time, ie in the Garden, in the Jewish system.

I am one of the LORDS WITNESSES.
My name is Ian
These are our websites.True Bible Code

UN-Watchtower.com You will find answers well out of the reach of the GB, and fellow witnesses..

You can prove JW's joined the UN in 1992-2001.Guardian Newspaper 8th October 2001 http://www.guardian.co.uk/Distribution/Redirect_Artifact/0%2C4678%2C0-565005%2C00.html Guardian Newspaper 15th October 2001

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4277197,00.htmlYou will know you can know when Armageddon is...March 2008, actually starts on the 23rd.

You say you can't know..based on what scriptures.. Matt 24:36 per chance? umm? Get your interlinears out, read it.. It say HAS KNOWN, not WONT KNOW!

Jesus was born on Atonement day! Tishri 10, the same day Adam was born/made.

1914 is true,
607 is True, but it is not the destruction date that was 586/7 BCE.
Check the site for how 607 BCE is right.. it's to do with Tax, vassals, and who appointed who, not Zedekiah!!

Twin Towers foretold to go down...Isa 30:25,26..look at the site for the full understanding!!

I am not an apostate to to Jehovah, or Jesus, only the Governing Body.

We have lots of researched information that we are willing to send you, or any others you may wish to inform me us.

There are 2, 144,000's yes TWO.
As in heaven also upon the earth... the princes of Isa 32:1.

The Nethinim have been sealed by God, they are the princes, all the remnant will be in heaven by Sept 1 2004.

There is much, much, more than you may know, at hand.

A brother in service to you and all.

Korben

Again check the websites, I have respoded in light of an old link given me...http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=619&page=1&site=3

I might know some things, but please forgive my inability to include links, pages etc, at present.

Email me for the resignation letter, and the specail talk JW's should of got.

blondie

Don't the Mormons believe that Adam was resurrected and made a god? What does the teaching Universal Salvation play in this question, does that mean Adam was resurrected? What religions teach Universal Salvation? Did Russell or his early associates believe in it?

Elsewhere

If the price of sin is really death, then their dept was paid when they died.

Farkel

Sangdigger,

: I was given a dogmatic answer that ABSOLUTELY NOT were they forgiven, since they were perfect.

That's WatchtowerSpeak. Challenge them to show you ONE place in the Bible where it says that Adam and Eve were "perfect." Just one. They can't do it. God merely said of his Creation that it was was "good." If they try to say that means that if God said it is good is MUST mean Adam and Eve were perfect, then God also said of all his Creation that it was "Good." Then ask them, "Were insects perfect then?"

Watch 'em squirm and make up bullshit trying to justify the bullshit the society made up when they said the Bible teaches that Adam and Eve were "perfect."

Or, for another giggle demand proof from the Bible where it clearly states that Adam and Eve were made to live forever on earth. They won't be able to find it because it isn't there. That's more bullshit made up by the Brooklyn Printing Co.

Farkel

was adam and eve forgiven?

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