Posts by cyberguy

40

i'm still alive...

by thebiggestlie in

i want to thank all of you for all your thoughtful pms.

i'll respond to them in time but can't at the moment.

i wanted to just check in and let you know that i'm doing relatively ok. the confrontation with my parents was a bit sticky.

cyberguy

TBL,

I’m so sorry it didn’t go as well as you might have hoped for. As you know, JW’s have an answer for everything, even it is merely “wait on Jehobr”.

Regarding just using Society publications, this shouldn’t be much of a problem, because the publications are full of self-incriminating content! You mentioned on another thread that you are home schooled. Then, I would ask your “teacher” about a little grammar issue you were having trouble with in the “Require” brochure. Lesson 14, “How Jehobr’s are Organized,” par. 4-6. Note that it has (lower case) “elders or overseers” and that “these men are not elevated above the rest of the congregation. There are not given special titles.” Then go to par. 6, and note that there are (lower case) “elders” who form a “central group” at the “world headquarters of JW’s," “Located there is the Governing Body.” Whoa! Ask your “teacher,” “why is Governing Body capitalized?” What are the rules of grammar that they are following? Then ask, “please explain why some elders do have special titles.” Anyway, there’s a ton of this stuff throughout their literature.

You can even have a lot of fun with the latest junk from the Rev. Climax book, when they go over subjects like how those of the leadership (GB) are still directing matters here on earth from their resurrected positions in heaven. Ask you parents how this is supposed to work. How do they communicate with the living today? What about all the flip-flops and abandonment of teachings over the years? If they were being directeded by resurrected ones, then what kind of direction were they really getting?

Anyway, try to have a little fun with this! You never know what questions you may ask that may cause your parents to reexamine their own beliefs!

With kindly regards,

Cyber

25

Great Crowd Appeared in 1930's........or did it?

by drew sagan in

the basic premise for this post came from some comments td made in a thread many months ago.

(read the full thread here : link) .

the specific point i wanted to discuss is the 'great crowd' theology the wts puts forth, especially the timeline of events it presents as accurate.

cyberguy

TD,

From what I recall, you are correct in stating that they believed the Great Tribulation had already begun and they were living through it! However, if I’m not mistaken, they changed this view circa 1962-1964. Not that this is a big deal, but they preached it had began in 1914. I was a young boy in the 1960’s when the change was made, and I recall two pioneer sisters (old-timers) coming over the house and explaining to my mom what she missed by not attending the DC (my dad would not allow us to attend). The two sisters were shaken by the change! I guess at the time, it was as monumental as the more recent “generation” change.

With kindly regards,

Cyber

29

Shunned by the congregation for not performing

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

as many of you know, i am a witness who still attends for the sake of my wife.

my meeting attendance has dropped to about 50% and i make maybe 1 hour a month in field service, although i report more than this to keep the elder's off my back.. after several months of this, the result has been noticeable.. those who used to be friendly and greet me no longer do so.

some even avoid me.

cyberguy

Truthseeker,

What you describe happened to me after I “slowed down.” Then, after I stopped going to meetings, an elder came by my house and said I should return to God and to meetings so that I can have “limited association.” “Limited association?” What is that supposed to mean? No thanks! I’ll find friends elsewhere. I don't need that kind of "association."

25

Great Crowd Appeared in 1930's........or did it?

by drew sagan in

the basic premise for this post came from some comments td made in a thread many months ago.

(read the full thread here : link) .

the specific point i wanted to discuss is the 'great crowd' theology the wts puts forth, especially the timeline of events it presents as accurate.

cyberguy

Drew,

You make a good point that as time goes on a large number of the “great crowd” will have passed away. Of course, their argument will be that these are really “other sheep” and are only of the “great crowd” when they actually become survivors of the Great Tribulation.

This two class system isn’t anything new, because from the beginning this group was separated as a secondary heavenly class, the door being shut in 1914 (if I recall correctly, and some other dates too), until it was bumped to circa 1935.

The main problem here is that they believe that the 144,000 is a literal number, that the number started to be fulfilled from the 1st century onward, and because of this position, they needed to account for the growing number of members. What I find very strange is that in their publications Ephesians 4 is referenced to support their argument that there is only one truth faith (Eph 4:5) but fail to recognize that vs 4 states there is only one hope! And one means one, no?

Cyber,

Just a side note:

The notion that the 144,000 began to be selected in the 1st century onward does not fit the context of Rev. 7 in that the number heard was in response to a the question asked at the end of chapter 6 as to “who will stand?” Therefore, it would seem that the selection would occur just before the plagues and hence would be associated with the end-time. Furthermore, the 144,000 (in chapt 7) are located on earth; they would not need protection if they were already resurrected to heaven. Also, John only hears the number, because John (in the vision) is in heaven, before the throne of God. He could not see the 144,000 on earth. He was stationed in heaven, before God’s throne after being asked to go through an “open door” (see chapt 4) which transported him from earth to heaven. Finally, the “Great Crowd” (or Large Crowd) can be seen by John, because they are in heaven where he was. The expression “the Great Tribulation” may refer to the general “tribulation” that Christians are subject to. As we know, some have faced an untimely death due to persecution (check other translations that leave the article out). It’s my understanding that in Greek, the definite article is included when something is referenced in the past (I’m sure there are others here on this board that can explain this more fully). Therefore, there is no need to conclude that it is a specific event (the big “A”) that the “Great Crowd” goes through.

24

Revelation Book Diagram

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

.

sorry if this has already been posted?.

purps.

cyberguy

I like it. Did you draw it, purplesofa?

57

Unbelievable comment in Jan 1 2007 WT

by penny2 in

page 28, paragraph 11 says in part:.

"it seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

" (the 24 elders = "anointed christians in their heavenly positions".).

cyberguy

Here's the actual words from The Finished Mystery:

8:3. And another angel.— Not the “voice of the Lord,” mentioned in the preceding chapter, but the
corporate body— the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which Pastor Russell formed to finish his work.
This verse shows that, though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the
Harvest work. “The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is the greatest corporation in the world, because from
the time of its organization until now the Lord has used it as His channel through which to make known the Glad
Tidings.” — Z.’17-22; Rev. 14:18; 19:17.

57

Unbelievable comment in Jan 1 2007 WT

by penny2 in

page 28, paragraph 11 says in part:.

"it seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

" (the 24 elders = "anointed christians in their heavenly positions".).

cyberguy

Hey Black Sheep!

The Finished Mystery is online at

http://www.reexamine.info/pre1920/sis7.pdf

20

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 2-4-07 WT Study (Justice)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 02-04-07 wt study (december 15, 2006, pages 25-29)(justice be done).

when in particular will god "cause justice to be done"?.

(luke 18:1; 2 thessalonians 3:13) granted, the coming of "the great day of jehovah" does not depend on our prayers--it will come whether we pray for it or not.

cyberguy

Thanks blondie! Say, this statement takes the cake:

14) Therefore, those who lose faith in the coming of God's day of judgment commit a grave error. Why? By giving up their firm belief that "the great day of Jehovah" is near,they question, in effect, whether Jehovah can be trusted to keep his promises faithfully.

Here's my take. Stuff like this is going to make people leave the cult faster than anything we could ever say.

34

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-21-07 WT Study (Day Near)

by blondie in

will try again, getting error message.

says posted 6 hours 3 minutes ago which is not true, less than ten minutes ago.

cyberguy

Thanks blondie, for the coverage. I got a strange phone call from an older JW elder this week and he sounded very panicky. After seeing this “study” article I can see why. And this guy is in his mid 70’s, was raised in the cult, believed his whole life he would never die in this system. Unfortunately, he is held captive by a concept that is false!

71

A Letter to the Governing Body

by truthsetsonefree in

(km 6/03 p. 1 par.

9 building for an eternal future, w87 2/1 p. 15 par.

(km 11/88 p. 4 par.

cyberguy

burp...