what kind of things would you put in an affidavit to the court for a custody hearing - list them out in this thread for me so that i can disperse each point across multiple pages, making a strong case.
i will start:.
blood transfusions: - jw children are refused blood transfusions that could save their lives.. how about school sports, flag salute, military service, discouraging college education, keeping "seperate from the world", armageddon teachings, etc.. help we fill in a little wordy description and elaborate on each point in this post - it would be very much appreciated!.
Get a copy of the book the WTS has that gives instructions on how to have your child (parent) lie in court.
I can't remember the name of the book right off hand, but I'm sure someone here knows. You can obtain a copy on ebay. I DO know that, because I was able to get one for a friend a few months ago.
Many!
But the one that stands out most to me is
AK-Jeff
He has been a huge help and encouragement to me. He has helped me so much more than he kows, and in the process has helped many others that he isn't even aware of.
Thanks, Jeff!
ok, here's the situation.. i have no friends that live close to me and i'm up to my eyeballs in bills.
i have applied to a few jobs that could potentially help me turn things around.
the things is, because i don't have parents/friends or any other people in my life.... 1. how do i get a babysitter when i have to go on the interviews?.
Perhaps you are not this far along in your healing, but just incase, ....
Perhaps you could call some of your area churches and see if they have a ministry dedicated to this. Or a Christian radio station in your area might be able to point the way to one. We live in a small area, but there are several ministries that offer these types of services for no charge, with no strings attached. They even have a free closet, so you can pick out professional attire for your interview. Often they provide you with a few free outfits to start you off in your new job.
It might be worth checking in to.
i have a copy of the blood brochure titled "how can blood save your life?
" and i also have a copy of the august 2006 awake titled "blood, why so valuable?".
can someone let me know if there are any major discrepancies or even outright lies in these 2 publications?
Skyman wrote an excellent letter on this. Does anyone know where to find it? I used it to help make many good points with my JW friend.
Pg. 11 of the Awake has a section dedicated to Hemoglobin -Based oxygen carriers. 2nd paragraph- it is processed from human or BOVINE red blood cells. (Bovine = being of a cow or ox.) Notice in paragraph 3 : it is STORED, which stored blood is suppose to be a big no-no. Also, on this same page, left hand column, bottom paragraph, it says that JWs are known to reject red cells (which hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers are made of), and white blood cells, which are in breast milk. Can JWs breast feed their babies? (And the white cells are definitely being eaten in this way.) Then why the ban on white cells?! (*The white blood cells are discussed in the foot note of the blood brochure, pg.14.)
I cannot find my Blood brochure, but here's a discussion I had with my JW friend. BTW, Acts 15 will be brought up, if you discuss this much.
She told me to use JUST the Bible and read Acts 15:20, 29. Then she asked if by reading this that I could tell her beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is talking about animal blood that is ingested and not all blood. My response: I agree that it speaks of EATING blood, of ANY kind, I suppose. While reading the entire context of Acts 15, it appears there is a dispute about Gentile Christians having to comply with Jewish circumcision laws in order to be saved. VS. 28 and 29 give the decision they made. Isn't this about EATING blood? A digestive process, rather than a medical process in which blood is transferred from person to person? Based on vs. 9-11, what does it state clearly that salvation is based on? Through who? Is salvation by any other way, or the loss of it, mentioned anywhere in Acts 15? I can see where eating practices would be more openly noticed than circumcision. Jews would have been horrified by Gentile dietary practices. (Same concept as Rom. 14 and 1 Cor. 8). But where does Acts 15 imply the loss of salvation by how you respond to the blood instruction? How do you get that from these verses?
Check it out, Jehovah had such a high regard for life, He even made exceptions for OT blood rules. In Lev. 17:15, He said a native could eat an animal he personally did not kill and knew had not been bled properly. In Lev. 11:39-40, Isn't this speaking to Israelites who are under Mosaic law? Isn't it speaking as though eating a dead, unbled animal was not unforgiveable? Even though their law forbids it? DEut. 14:21, God clearly tells them not to eat an animal that is already dead. Lev. 17:15, He says what to do if they DID eat something dead. This would be handy to know, if you had to eat something dead or die yourself of starvation. He gave them the right to choose life. Doesn't that show that our lives are more important than a rule on blood?
She replied that she would rather abstain from all blood, and not chance breaking God's law, by using her own rationalizations, blah blah blah. My response: I still don't see how a blood transfusion is the same as eating blood. The Blood Brochure you gave me clearly states that not all JWs abstain from all blood, as you do. They are allowed components of blood. Which are made from stored human blood. Collected from non-JWs, I assume. Can you see why that is confusing to me?
In that blood brochure, pg. 27 says that organ transplants are okay, and pg. 12 says that blood is an organ. (I may have my page numbers off, but you can find it easily.)
Some other great questions to throw out there: They will say, "What if you were told to abstain from alcohol? Would you inject it in your veins?" Ask: If a doctor tells his patient he needs a blood transfusion, and if he didn't have the equipment to inject the blood in his veins, would he pour the blood in a glass and have him drink it? If you needed a liver transplant, and no one was there to perform the operation, would he have you eat it?
Do JWs follow the strict dietary laws of the OT? (No rare meat, everything butchered kosher?)Leviticus 4:17 states no fat. Do youalso refrain from eating any fat?
Since JWs weren't allowed to have organ transplants at one time, but they are allowed to now, how can I be sure the blood rule is not going to change? How wold you feel if your child died from adhereing to this rule, then the rule was changed? Did the Bible change? Or did someone's interpretation of it change?
I wish I could find my blood brochure, because I had questions lined up on every page of it. Especially the numbers game. The percentages of people who died from blood tranfusions or caught diseases: If I had a 1 in 300,000 chance of dying from a cancer treatment, or a 99% chance of dying from the cancer without the treatment, I would go for the treatment! Those are darn good odds.
Hope this helps some.
Best to you!
right now, to me being spiritual is all about being led by your inner spirit and includes .
1. being in tune with the goodness within and treating people how you would like to be treated.
2. being in tune with nature and appreciating the beauty and complexity of the universe.
I believe much the same as you.
Spirituality recognizes that there is a world that is invisible to us and there are powers that we cannot see at work. There are also different types of spirtuality. The type that wishes to decieve and do harm, and the type that wishes to do only good and does so without any deciept whatsoever.
The type of spiritual person I long to be is the type that manifests the Holy Spirit in the sense of Gal. 5:16 and Gal. 5:25. (The fruit of the Spirit, in my own way.)
It isn't a steadfast condition. It is something that must be maintained. If you flounder in your spiritual life, you will lose something of it. You can get it back, but as with anything, it takes time and obedience. You have to be willing to pursue it. It's very easy to get side-tracked. That is something I struggle with.
I take my lead from reading about Jesus. I see in the Bible that He was a Spiritual person. He was NOT religious at all. (See how He reacted to the Pharisees!)
MY favorite shirt has emblazoned on the front: "Having a religion is against my relationship."
Following my spiritual instincts, rather than religious rules has truly made me a different and better person.
Interesting topic.
Not long ago there was a talk show that dedicated an hour to a guy that lived on the streets, no vices (drugs or the like), and they gave him $100,000. Within a matter of a few months, he was right back on the streets. He blew it all.
I think that many who live on the streets, figure that is their lot in life. They are comfortable in their dicomfort. If that makes sense.
I had a family member who never wanted anything beyond the very basics. A roof over the head, something to eat once a day. That's it! Heating, A/C, a car, even hot water.... was a non-issue. This person was fairly happy too. Lots of people called them a bum, but if they had a dime, they would gladly give it to someone they thought needed it more.
As long as they don't try to harm anyone, I figure they have a right to live how they see fit. I think they have sharp survival instincts. Smarter than we give them credit for. Efficient living. They don't even get Govt. checks, because they don't have addresses. Grateful for whatever good fortune comes their way daily. If none does today, well, tomorrow is another day!
i put all this to my mum yesterday and she didnt like it, she didnt like the thought i got material before the fds shared it, i think she thought this material was created a bit nearer to the time of it being needed, food at the proper time and everything and not that it was sat waiting to be given.. anyway we also chatted about the holy spirit and how the jw's are denied what it could potentially do for them, well she said its abilties arent around today.... i asked about the society and asked if it was a prophet she said yes.
i then showed her the scripture that showes the gifts of the sprit 1 corinthians 12...prophecy is one of them, so then i asked her what else might still work if prophecy does.
it showed from that scripture that all the gifts of the spirit that show themselves are equally as important in the eye of god bla bla bla and wow she was stunned.... in the end she resorted to twisting scripture, because as we got onto how the sprit isnt an active force but a real thing she used verse 6 to prove that apparently it was his active force it says god does all these things in men...wtf?.
How could there be any openings left when Russell came on the scene in 1880? The book of Acts mentions at least 100,000 saved, and this was the BEGINNING of Christianity!
Acts 2:41- 2,000
Acts 2:47- daily saved
Acts 4:4- 5,000
Acts 9:42; 17:12, 19:18 - Many
Acts 13:48- as many as were ordained to eternal life believed
Acts 21:20- many ten thousands [lit. myriads] NWT (large ref. edition) footnote: tens of thousands *A very large number of both physical and spiritual Jews.
The Finished Mystery 1917, says there were 861,000 martyrs. Surely a great number of these would have been in the 144,000, wouldn't they?
If she tries to use the schpeel about the Bible saying there will be a falling away, point out that the Bible says the falling away happens in the END times. JWs claim we are living in the END times NOW. In order to fall away, they must have something to fall away from in the first place.
Another thing I would point out: The WTS taught that the 144,000 number was closed at 1935. Just about everything practiced by JWs of that time is now considered pagan. (Voting, war, observing holidays, birthdays, etc..., smoking, blood transfusions, no proper name for God, no proper oragnization, Jesus on the cross, worshipped Jesus, believed ALL JWs go to heaven, Christ's return was in 1874, and so on.) Why would God choose people with such pagan beliefs to live and reign with Him?! If the light is getting brighter, why wouldn't He wait until the very end and choose those with the purest doctrines and practices?
That's a few of the things I would ask about.
in reviewing some letters that i sent in the months following my official da from the cult, i came across this one, an important one, perhaps the most important one to me at the time.
six months ago i sent it - but it was the culmination of 2 years of rewrites - still not particularly well written i suppose.
the addressee was my long-time confidant and best-friend, who happens to be my cousin.
The paragraph Open Mind highlighted is wonderful!
I'm saving it and putting it on a postcard. Sending it to my friend. Maybe it will make her think!
Thanks, Jeff!
no, i mean detest titles.
the borg.
experience has left me with a revulsion to titles.
Can't stand titles! I associate them with social climbers, which annoy me to no end.
I currently have a "friend" (I use that term loosely) who is a big time social climber. We are polar opposites on every issue and I try to avoid her at all costs, but occasionally I get roped in to spending time with her. I know that if it wasn't for some of the wealthy friends I have, she wouldn't have anything to do with me.
She wants to butt kiss my $$$ buddies so bad, but they know a phony when they see one. She's not the only one who wants to rub elbows with them because of their social status. Which they find obnoxious. They like genuine people.
I must be as frustrating to her, as she is to me. I'm not getting her into the loop. Poetic justice? :0)
hello friends,.
inlight of the new post from elsewhere regarding the elders manual, it got me wondering what the elder body would do if a elder refused to turn in their manual.
i suppose there isn't alot they could do, but has it ever happened to any of you??
Whatever you do, PLEASE do not give them ANY of this stuff back! And, if you happen upon older literature, donate it to Free Minds, or another group that helps people to come out of the WTS.
If you don't want to do that, then put it for sale on ebay! I have bought a lot of great old WTS books and magazines from ebay, and they have been great resources for reaching current JWs.
