Posts by whyizit

18

On your way "out" of the WT, did you experience physical syptoms?

by whyizit in

i'm not a jw, nor have i ever been.

all of the sudden she wants to spend all this time with me.

of course, lots of what she was telling me about the "bible", didn't make sense.

whyizit

Should I avoid asking "upsetting" questions, or is this simply one of the "rites of passage" out of the WTS? It has to happen, in order for the release from the mind control? Though I don't want to to see this person sick, I also have a very hard time holding back on asking things I am sure they never thought through before joining up with the WTS.

Perhaps I am being petty, but when someone (like this friend) goes out of their way to be highly critical of my beliefs, and asks me about my "leaders" credentials, I don't feel out of line asking about THEIR's! And when they tell me it's a bunch of really good JWs ( though they don't even know how many) whom they wouldn't know if they plopped down in the seat next to them at KH, I can't help but ask...."Let me get this straight....I should research everyone else's relgious beliefs, including my own....however, if I were to tell you the same thing-- that they are some highly spiritual nice guys who I wouldn't know if they sat right next to me, you think that would be acceptable enough?" You can't name any of them, you don't know what race they are, you don't know if they are replaced upon death, you don't know how old they are, you don't know their credentials, you don't know the process by which they were chosen, and that is suppose to make me trust that they alone speak for God? And they know more than I do about the Bible? Sorry! Not buying it.

Of course, then I'm accused of not trusting them. Heck no, I don't trust them! I don't even know who they are! Neither do YOU!

I don't care if I talk about religous issues or not. There is plenty to discuss besides that all the time. But I don't feel the need to recoil and hold back, when I know something isn't right. However, I don't wish to see someone become sick over the conversation either. *Note: The subject of religion was NEVER, EVER brought up by me. But I have always been told off and cut off at the end of each conversation, as though I were the one who brought it all up!

18

On your way "out" of the WT, did you experience physical syptoms?

by whyizit in

i'm not a jw, nor have i ever been.

all of the sudden she wants to spend all this time with me.

of course, lots of what she was telling me about the "bible", didn't make sense.

whyizit

I'm not a JW, nor have I ever been. A friend of mine became a JW, recently baptized. All of the sudden she wants to spend all this time with me. Of course, lots of what she was telling me about the "Bible", didn't make sense. Probably because I have actually READ the Bible in it's entirety, and knew the magazines with the Scripture references were not adding up. You can make the Bible say anything you want, by doing it that way!

Of course, I asked a lot of questions, and I would get answers to questions I didn't even ask at all. Eventually, I was rather abruptly dumped as a prospective convert. Of course, before this happened, my "friend", literally tried to make me angry and was quite rude and accusatory about my questions. I just brushed it off and said it didn't make any sense. Why argue over it?

Any way, after that, I guess I was no longer worthy of spending ANY time with, because we didn't even have lunch together or anything anymore. I know now why that is. I guess I wasn't "becoming" one of them. Why bother spending time with me, when they can COUNT TIME spent with someone who might actually pan out to become one of their unpaid magazines sales persons? Good friend, eh? Only spending time with me, because it was an eaasy way to wrack up a few hours a week.

NOW this person emailed me with questions about my beliefs. Which was more of a baiting tactic, rather than genuine interest. I'm non-denominational. I believe in the Bible personally, but I understand others do not. I also understand others have beliefs different from mine and have no desire to change. Their choice. I respect that. But, come on! Don't put words in my mouth and try to tell me what I believe, based on what someone else told you! Which is what this person tried to do.

I basically explained what I believe and why. (Hey, they asked!) It was an interesting conversation, I thought. Evidentally things were not going the way the WT sales manuel said it should. I received a series of very curt and rude emails. (Basically telling me they didn't want to discuss it anymore.) I just let it go and went on with life. NOW I've been contacted again. Small idle chit chat via email. NO religious stuff. However, I found this very interesting. This person told me they have been having health issues. (Given the timetable of when these health issues started, it was right after I was given the mighty and abrupt send off.) Rapid heart beat, can't sleep, etc... This is all so wierd! Tell me to get lost, then come back and chit chat about nothing, and then tell me about health issues that started after our last contact.

Since then, a long time former JW told me she had the same symptoms when she was discovering the truth about the WTS. Is this common? When something finally clicks, and a person discovers something isn't right with the WTS, do they sometimes become physically ill? What do you think it all means? Should I hang in there and just keep putting up with the Jeckyl and Hyde routine, or should I change email accounts and move out of state? (kidding...sort of...) Can someone tell me what the heck is going on, from a former JW perspective????

Thanks!

27

Raising Chickens!

by jgnat in

jw
friends

i had another great idea the other day; raise chickens!

in this rapidly changing recessionary world, i cast my mind back to stories of the depression.

farmers fared better than urban dwellers.

whyizit

We used to have some chickens (Aracuanas and Americaunas) that laid colored eggs. Mostly green, but there were some pink, lavender, blue, and yellow also. It was like Eater every morning. The eggs were big too, and some were even double yolkers. If you don't bother with a rooster, you by-pass a lot of the noise factor. And it is true, there is nothing better than farm fresh eggs!

74

Just don't know what to do.

by Weeping in

jw
friends

i disagree on some doctrine with the organisation.

yet, i also know these are the kindest,most loving people on earth.

such people must be guided by the holy spirit.

whyizit

Hello.

I am not a JW, never have been. I do have several former JW friends. From my understanding, the WTS org. is loving with strict conditions. Loving, Most of all, when they are trying to indoctrinate a new member, and after, only if you continue to jump through their WT hoops. The love and friendship often come with agendas and conditions attached.

I can say, just like you, that the people in many of the chuches I have been involved with are very loving and have helped me also. It is true! Even though the churches have different names, styles of music, etc..., they are all part of the same body, which is Christ. No where in the Bible does it say we are to look for a perfect organization. We are to look to Jesus and follow Him. (If you rea the context of the verses quoted to support the WT org. theory, you will find that they relate to JESUS. Not an organization at alll!) Organizations are formed and run by fallible people. They make mistakes, they have agendas. They are not perfect. Jesus is.

Sometimes we can so closely relate a religious organization to God, that we become disheartened with God when that religion fails us. But God did not fail. The people may have, but God did not. My JW friend was very upset with me for pointing out that the WTS taught Jesus came back in 1874, but now teach He returned in 1914. I asked who made the mistake. God doesn't make mistakes! It had to be a person's perception. She chewed me up one side and down the other and let me know how flawed other religions are. I should know who runs them, etc... So, I asked the obvious: Who run's the WTS? What are their names? Howmany are there? Where are they from? How were they chosen? Then, suddenely it was okay NOT to know. She could walk right past one in the KH and never know it. Is that a suitable reason for others not to know who their leaders are? Ah...see the double standard?! No religion isperfect. See who Jesus admonishes most--it is religious leaders! So concerned about rules and regulations, they have no genuine love to give those who need it most.

The difference between the WTS and the churches I spoke of earlier, is that when I decided that I needed to move to another church, I did not lose any of my friends. I expanded them! No one ever shunned me. I can walk back in any of my former churches to open arms, and we share what has been going on in our individual lives. We don't criticize or shun one another. I didn't leave the Christian faith. I left a building of people, to go where I needed to be next. Circumstances change in our lives, so sometimes we have to go to other places for many reasons. We are not cookie cutter people. We are all different with a variety of gifts to offer. God will move us to stretch us sometimes.

Personally, I felt very used by my JW friend. She spent lots of time with me, but I later found out it was because she was able to count our time together, our phone conversations, even our emails, as a notch in her JW time card. It made her look good to her publishing company, basically. When I showed no signs of converting (the WTS cannot offer me better than I have- a secure salvation), she dumped me. She still contacts me once in awhile, but since I cannot be counted as time on her card, we no longer go to lunch, or anything! Was that genuine love? I did not count my time with her. I truly wanted to spend time with her. Where does the Bible say we are to keep track of time spent with potential converts? Isn't that silly, when you think about it? Not very nice, when someone like me finds out about it. But I still love her and wish her the best.

I hope you understand, that all the WTS says about other religions is not true. We are not all part of the WCC. There are many Bible-believing Christians who do not fall in the catagory of Babylon The Great. I pray Yahweh blesses you in your search.

Whyizit

54

C.O. Talked about the fact that we may die in this system

by life is to short in

jw
friends

being that my husband is still going to most of the meetings, i tied into the meeting sunday to see what the co had to say on his last day at the hall.

one thing i found interesting is that we may die in this system.

he said when he first learned the "truth" he just knew for sure that the system would end before he was baptized and he was so stressed out from it.

whyizit

I would think this would be a great spring board to start interesting conversations with the hubby!

"Honey, I was thinking about the CO's observations. You know, how he thought the system would end, but it didn't?

I wonder about the people who are working at Bethel, and have never been paid much. Do you think the WTS has a nice rest home waiting for them? Cause, you know, they won't qualify for SSI. And after all the years of faithful, free service, it wouldn't seem right if they were just booted out on the street when they can no longer work."

Oh, yeah. Honey! A friend brought up an interesting thought. What do you say to someone who points out that dying at Armageddon seems like a more viable option? because you do still get be resurrected, after all. Yet, you don't have to watch loved ones being killed, devoured by worms and birds, and then have to bury the billions of bones left. Then there's the JWs having to clean up and build everything without power tools, etc... (No pollution in the "new system".) , just using wheel barrows, shovels, and hand saws. Working like that so a bunch of non-JWs who never lifted a finger can just come back and enjoy it all. Seems like it would be better to die at the Big A and rest until all the work is done. "

"Oh, one more thing, Honey Buns! A non-JW asked me a question that I just didn't know how answer. I was tellin' them all about the constant state of resurrections that would be going on during the "new system", and they couldn't quite grasp that. they asked me to show them in the Bible where it says specifically that this will occur. I tried, but then they pointed out Rev. 19:4-5. It appears to say there is not a resurrection during the 1,000 years! What do you make of that, Honey? It seems to only be speaking of TWO resurrections. One before, and one after, the 1,000 yrs."

Of course, I know this all is easier said than done, but it is kind of fun to think about what you wish you could say!

I would like to know what the heck the filthy rich WTS has to offer for those who do put their lives on hold to be a slave to their printing company. They should be REQUIRED to pay some sort of restitution to those who were duped into thinking the world would end and they wouldn't need SSI and Medicare. SHAME on them!

5

You ask a thought provoking question: how many other JWs see it too?

by whyizit in

jw
friends

i've been going back and forth with a jw friend for over a year now.

i tend to ask question that are not in the "splaining away the scriptures" book.

of course, i get a whole lot of copy and pasted wt nonsense that usually doesn't even pertain to my questions.

whyizit

I've been going back and forth with a JW friend for over a year now.

I tend to ask question that are not in the "Splaining Away The Scriptures" book. Of course, I get a whole lot of copy and pasted WT nonsense that usually doesn't even pertain to my questions. I am quite sure that my friend is getting help with her answers from her other JW friends.

That has made me wonder: How many JWs may be inadvertently getting THEIR thought processes jump started along the way? Were you ever in a situation where someone was asked a really good thought provoking question, and the you could see that it affected OTHERS, maybe they even ended up leaveing at some point? I just wondered if the other eyes that are privy to seeing these questions, might be getting stirred up as much as my friend is? (And she IS!)

She's tried to provoke arguments, accused me of all kinds of nonsense, etc...when things get hard to answer. I just shrug and go on. And she just keeps coming back for more. Even when I think she is probably never going to speak to me again. It is like she hopes it can be proven wrong on some level. Do you think that happens?

Would love to hear opinions.

Whyizit

32

Living With Regret - what do YOU regret about being in the org?

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

1. getting baptized at 14 and not knowing what the heck i was 'signing' up for.

2. dating worthless, lazy, no work ethic, selfish 'brothers' who were supposedly approved all because they were baptized - but in the end - were a waste of my time and younger years in dating.. 3. subjecting my bf (back in the day) who was a non-jw to the whole jw experience!

i demanded that he study, i demanded that he change his religion in order to be with me, i made him sit with my parents and listened to them berate him (and myself) while they fed him all their haughty beliefs and requirements in order to date their jw daughter.

whyizit

I've never been in the Org. But here are regrets I have , since my friend joined up:

That I know her better than anyone else, and she is the one person I DO know what to get for Christmas, but I can't get her anything!

That I haven't received a birthday card from her in over 6 years.

That when I send her a card, she never even acknowledges it.

That every time we talk, she has to spout off some WT nonsense so she can count her "time" talking to me. I wish I didn't even know that was what she was doing. It would make me feel less used.

That I can never, ever leave my child with her, because she might try to indoctrinate. And that she has made her's socially terrified of everyone. As if their other "problems" aren't enough.

I regret that I was too busy and self-absorbed when she first became invovled with them, because had I kown where she would end up, I would have figured out how to put a stop to it early on. I thought they were just a harmless, yet legalistic, religion and she would drop them soon enough. I had no idea she was going to be trapped in a mind control cult!

I am frustrated that others don't seem interested enough to find out what they could do to help get her thought processes moving in the right direction again.

6

? about 8-15-09 WT and Millions Now Living Never Die talk from 1920's

by whyizit in

jw
friends

a jw friend recently gave me this magazine and requested i read the article on page 12. this was to "help" me with my questions about the leaders of the org.

did not answer anything, but only added to my questions!

is "millions now living will never die" available in kh libraries?

whyizit

A JW friend recently gave me this magazine and requested I read the article on page 12. This was to "help" me with my questions about the leaders of the Org. Did not answer anything, but only added to my questions! Is "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" available in KH libraries? Is any of that atlk available on the WT library cds? Would it be out of line to ask for info. about the resources that were quoted (many of which do not support what JWs believe, when you read them carefully)? And who wrote the article? Is the WT mag. suposedly written by divinely guided GB members?

I came up with over 8 questions from this article alone. Not including the rest of the magazine. So much of it doesn't even support what the WT believes at all. The Bible references are WAY off. I could go on and on!

I'm trying to figure out how to ask for the WT book so I could read it first hand. I have the Harp of God. Is that the same book? It has that saying plastered on the front of it.

If you have ideas of how I can bring some of this up without being offensive, I would love to hear them!

19

Help! Leaving the WT and realizing I'm a social misfit!

by 2pink in

jw
friends

so, i'm 30-something and have been a lifelong jw, born and raised.

(yeah, i know double points against me on the social scale!).

i'm on my way out (and moving at a fast pace with that, lol) and um, am now realizing that outside of the kingdom hall, i am a bit of a social retard!

whyizit

Read "combatting cult mind control" by Steven Hassan. You are bound to hear thought stopping cliches, and things will be said that will make WT phobias pop into your mind. You should understand that, because others who do not know what a person goes through when coming out of a cult will NOT understand what you are going through. It will help you to re-associate common words that JWs put a spin on. (Read the book, you will know what I mean. Most libraries have a copy.)

One of the greatest appeals of cults is the "instant friendships". But they are always conditional. Real friendships take time.

What do you like to do? See what your community has available for your own interests. When you meet someone and you have become fairly close. You might be honest and let them know that you were once in a "high control abusive relationship" . You may sometimes come accross as not very socially savvy, and it may be somewhat true. That may take some of the edge off on their end, if they don't understand why something just freaked you out, and they have no idea what it even was.

To make friends, be a friend. Get to know parents of the children your child is friends with. You would have that in common! Do you like pets? Maybe volunteer at the humane shelter an hour or two a week. See if any local charities need volunteers. (Doesn't have to be a religious charity, by the way.) Check the paper for a cooking class, crafts, something that you would like. If you like it, then whoever you meet there would like it too.

You probably are not really as awkward socially as you think. It's like spending all your time with your boyfriend, and when you break up, you figure out that you didn't cultivate any other friendships, and now they are gone. It will only be lonely for a little while. Push yourself to get out and participate in something YOU enjoy. Not what someone else thinks you need to be doing. You've had enough of that!

You are going to be fine and you are going to have some great new friendships! REAL ones!

40

Wilbur Lingle, author of the new book "What The Watchtower Society doesn't Want You To Know"

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the jehovah's witnesses, come to your door with promises of "great love", inner peace, and a utopian future.

but what are they not telling you?

wilbur lingle, author of the new book, "what the watchtower society doesn't want you to know" puts in to layman's language his many years of documented research about the inner workings of the society, including the true character of its leaders, the false phrophecies they have made, their strange doctrines and ideas, etc.

whyizit

I too have been very fortunate to have met Wilbur Lingle and he has been a personal friend of mine for nearly 6 years.

He has given me endless support, he has helped former JW friends I have referred to him, and he has never asked for one thin dime. If anyone thinks he is getting rich from counter cult ministries, believe me, he is not. I have been to his home. Although he has a lovely home, it is quite clear he and his wife are not "rich" in the monetary sense.

I encourage anyone who needs help understanding what is going on with family members who are in the JWs or Mormons to read his books. He even welcomes people contacting him. He has been an enormous encouragement in my family's lives. He is not hateful or money grubbing. I cannot count the times he has called me long distance to help me with a problem I was facing, and never hinted at the idea of a donation. it was out of his own pocket. It is a blessing to know him and his wife!