As we read in post after post, the WT is a publishing company. They sell their wears, well the r&f sell their wears for them. It is a numbers game - if you talk to 100 people maybe 5% will listen, and then about 2% of those will buy. So we don't spend to much time at the doors because we need the number of "chances for a sale" to be up. Peoples eternal salvation that is an afterthought - if it is a thought at all.
Posts by 2112
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3Placements and Ministry Hours vs. Conversions
by megs ini am so irritated.
the pioneer who was giving me bible study mailed me the public version of watchtower and awake!
(i'm not doing the bs anymore) this got me thinking... why is more emphasis placed on hours in the ministry and "product placement" than conversion??
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Personality disorders among jw elders
by badboy ini had one that singled me out on a talk.
i was supposedly working on warmth and enthusiasm, which they should reasonably have known i could not do properly without hope with the opposite sex (which they blew on the promise of).
this idiot gave me a w on that point, after i had previously been marked i on the same point (and this idiot was not known for giving w's first and asking questions later--at least then i could have understood that he was just picky).. this same hounder also continually dallied at the kingdumb hell after promising me rides back and forth.
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2112
I had a bunch of elders that were kooks. I can't say for sure that they had "disorders" but they were kooks. I am an entertainer and I have never had a problem in front of an audience, and I would always do well in the school. My father would tell me I do too much research for a school part and that all I needed to do was work on the point in the school guide book not the material. Anyway our school overseer, our third or fourth since I started in the school, would always tear my presentations apart and then "reluctantly" move me to the next point. So the night I was to work on eye contact, I get up and give my presentation and he just ripps me saying that I did a lousy job, yes he used that term, saying I did not make eye contact at all. There were gasps from the congregation and even some comments saying I made a lot of eye contact, this too was during my "public rebuke." So I was told to repeat that point and was assigned another talk about two weeks later. I went up to do my part and I did not take a single note, book, or Bible with me. I just stood there and staired right at this guy, right in hie eyes. I gave my part, ended it on time and sat down. As I sat, the entire congregation was on edge waiting for my "council." Well the PO got up for my review and said I did a fantastic job. I don't know if the school overseer was not allowed or if he did not want to do it but either way he did not look at or speak to me for weeks.
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JW-Based Names for JW-Based Businesses
by Nosferatu inwhile doing some job hunting, i came across an ad for a cleaning business called "paradise cleaning" or something like that.
i'd think it's a 99% chance that the company is a bunch of jws.
what are some of the goofy names you've seen for jw's home businesses?
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2112
I agree with that, I can't count how many companies with those names.
New World ...., Bethel ...., Kingdom ...., it is to funny.
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Final prep for 'bible' study tonite, topics Michael = Jesus and Generation
by insearchoftruth inplease take a quick glance at the following as i am in final preparations for sitting in with my wife on her bs this evening...the sister is bringing along her husband, the po from the congregation to answer some of my questions.
i know there will not be time to get to all of this, but is any of it extremely good or extremely worthless to ask.
i need to remember to keep calm, respectful, and realize that i can not attack, there may be times when i need to ask for more time.
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2112
Wow you have a lot here and you are correct you will not be able to go over it all tonight. However if the PO sees this list he will try and answer everything in one sitting but he will expect you to accept everything he says without question. He will expect you to be so impressed with his knowledge that you must accept it.
You must not talk about more that two topics. Michael - Jesus is a very good one to start with. You seem to have a good grasp on the scriptures with this so I would start there. Do not let him rush through his explanations/answers. He will try and go fast so don't let him. When he starts to jump from scripture to scripture stop him and say "No lets discuss this scripture first, in it's context." This will distrube him and he may reply - It has to be in the context of the Bible, or something like that. Just say that each writer wrote in context of their own book, at the time of the writing they did not have the other books to "Get in context with."
Another thing they do quite often is when you don't see things their way they will sort of smile and chuckle as if to say you are so below me. It is meant to be very condescending, after you have questions and they alone have the answers. When this happens call him on it this is how I replied when they did it to me; "This is not funny, I find no humor in this. You claim my eternal salvation is involved and you laugh because I do agree with what you are saying. Maybe it is you that doesn't fully understand, after all you claim to have the answers yet you haven't convinced me. And with your condescending attitued you obviously think I am below you, so use your superrior knowledge and convence me." It changed the entier mood yes but it did become more respectful and it put them on the defencive, even though they were there to "teach" me.
Also just to bring in your question - Could a person using the Bible ever come to accurate knowledge and gain salvation? (I know you worded yours a bit differently)
Insist that you use the Bible only, he will object but insist on it. Everytime he tries to open another book insist again. If he persists, and he will, ask your question. Then press him on it. He will try and pull a scripture on you about the Etheopion eunic reading some scriptuers and I believe it was Peter heard and asked if he understood what he was reading. The responce was no I need a teacher. They think that answers the question. However, just say "That is fine but why would the Eunic not understand what he was reading - becaues he was not a Jew." Then say - did Peter use a WT or other publication or did he use only the scriptures the Eunic was reading? Plus after the "teaching" was done the Eunic was babtized immediately. He did not have to study other publications fir a long time and he did not have to answer 100 or more questions.
At the point ask your question again a bit differently - "Can a person using only the Bible alone ever come to the same conclusions as the JW teaches?" This puts then in a corner becaues if they say no then that opens up a load of questions about the Bibles authority that I am sure you can think of. If they say yes the you can easily insist on using the Bible only in your discussion.
A bit long I know, I hope it helps a little. Good luck, please let us know how it goes.
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Ironic Number 4 Talk Next Week
by stillajwexelder inso next week i have the talk " how should we respond to people who say we are false prophets?".
anyone have any suggestions?.
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2112
One point that Billy made I think needs to be put in your talk in some way, And that is the point that the WT blamed the r&f for believing the WT on 1975. If you could somehow slip that in even in passing it would probably make a lot of folks take notice. If you are asked afterwords about it you only need to refer them to the publications leading to 1975 and then the articles stating that it was the r&f fault.
Good luck, and please let us know how it goes.
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Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY
by jwfacts ini have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.
any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.
since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.
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2112
Very nice job JWFacts, presented extreemely well - Thanks
Jringe01 - As has been said this was a presentation/discussion of the WT deception in presenting their material, and the Trinity was just the example JWFacts used to illustrate it. However your first post quoted some scriptures, yet your second post in responce to someone said we don't know what the writers were really thinking so we can't really determine what they meant. How do the two posts follow each other?
Not trying to argue but just want to understand.
Thanks
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Sciptures? Help???
by lostsheep82 ini know this subject is touchy, and i dont want to stir feathers.....but with my most recent convo with my mom and her "anointed" husband, they dont have as much of a problem with me discrediting the society as i do, as they do with the fact that i'm gay.
as he puts it....ignore the society and what they teach....go to the bible...so i asked him what about david and jonathans relationship, how can you prove they didnt have a sexual love for eachother and he says...'amanda, do you think they were bum holing eachother?'.
well when you put it that way i dont know, but that has nothing to do with the fact that most gay relationships have nothing to do with the actual act of sex, they have to do with the love two people share, cause they can't share it with someone else.. his response was simpathetic, and cause of my abusive past, that is what they blame it on........if i wasnt abused i wouldnt be gay.
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2112
I don't have any scriptures for you but that is not your only recource. First I wonder what your father would say if you did "Prove that what you were doing was not wrong". Would he accept it, if he did they he would have a problem with the WT. Would he be ready for that?
How long do you think he is going to be ok with your disagreements/problems with the WT? Could it be thet he is so confident in the WT and his anointing they he can answer all your doubts and get you to come back? I'm sure your parents love you very much so cherrish that.
I'm not sure where it is or the exact wording but the bible does mention something about if you violate your own conscience that is a sin. Maybe someone can help find that scripture. If it is found then you could tell your folks that it would violate you conscience to hide your true feelings about your lifestyle.
Hope it all resolves itself and you ens up happy!
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Ovation Guitar anyone?
by Simon ini used to play the guitar quite a bit but haven't practiced seriously for quite a few years (and left my guitar in the uk when we moved over here).. yesterday i decided i should get myself a guitar again so i popped into a music store and had a strum on a few.. the ovation guitars seemed really nice and not too expensive.
does anyone have one or have any experience of them?
i would love the electic one they do that can also sound acoustic but can't really justify spending so much so would probably get a regular wood / round-backed one.. thanks.
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2112
Hello Simon,
As some have mentioned the round back takes some getting used to, and the composite body has a different sound that a wood body. I don't care for them but that is just me I have some friends that swear by them. Ovation is a nice guitar but there are some others you may want to look at as well.
Depending on your budget Taylor is one of the best for sound, quality, and playability. but they will also set you back mega bucks. Takamine guitars are great, and play very nicely, as well as being quite affordable. Martins are nice sounding but to me they don't play as nicely as a Taylor and they too are pricey. Gibson Hummingbird is nice but again expencive. Alverez also makes some very nice yot affordable guitars.
Mainly it depends on two things your budget and what you feel comfortable playing.
My choices would be; Top of the line - Taylor, or Affordable - Takamine.
But if you like the Ovation then that is what you should get, as i said they do make a great guitar. As long as you play it does not mater what you play.
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The Loyalty Question
by choosing life inhow many here have been asked the loyalty question by an elder.
i am referring to, "do you believe that jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave class to accomplish his work?
" or something along this line?.
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2112
I was asked that question by a JC. I did not answer it so I was told that they would treat my non-answer as a no. They then say that since I answered no that I would be concidered to have DA myself. My reply was "I did not answer with a no and I am not DA myself. If you say or infer that I did you will be guilty of lying." I also said that "You said a prayer at the start of this meeting and asked Jehovah for his blessing, now your telling me you plan to lie about what was or wasn't said? Do you really serve a God who would support that and give you his blessing to tell lies? The God of the Bible can not lie, and his enemy Satan is the father of the lie, so when you tell these lies who will you be serving?"
Well, I do not know what they actually did as they never talked to me again and I have recieved many conflicting messages about what they announced. My wife came home from a meeting two weeks later and told me they read my letter to the cong. I asked "what letter?" She said "The letter you sent to DA yourself." I said " I did not send a letter and if they said I did they are lying" Her reply was that elders don't lie. - (How do you argue with that)
I asked if they said I was DA or DF she said no they said you were no longer a JW. Others have said that I was DF'ed, some said DA'ed and a few have said there was never any mention one way or another. Me I don't give a rats butt.
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Shouldn't JWs Ban Wedding Receptions Because of their Pagan Origins?
by neverendingjourney inwell, nah, because jesus attended a wedding reception and provided kick a$$ wine.
but, modern day jw's are all about removing anything fun from life, so they should consider it for this reason alone.
one more fun thing bites the dust.
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2112
I pointed this out to an Elder years ago that the reception, ring, kiss etc were all of pagan origins, and then asked 'If they are allowed then why not birthdays?" - I was told that God instituted weddings so it is ok, and he mentioned that Jeses went to a wedding. My reply was did not God institute birth? And if we did not have birth then we would not have weddings.