i think there are intellegent dubs, although in our hall not many. A lot bask in their own stupidity. There are some that really have their head screwed on, i remember we had a talk given by this guy that used all "worldly" philosophers as examples. I actually remember thinking ( i was 15ish at the time) that you can be smart and be a witness. I heard last month that he and his wife DA'd.
I remember being expressly told not to bring what i was learning in Uni to the kingdom hall. Then i had a talk about Good Works as a Christian (which i ooops, failed to include going out on the service, how evil of me) and used a quote from Martin Luther. The brother who takes the schools, loves the fact that he left highschool early to work in a car factory, asked me for a copy of the quote so he could use it in talks, i told him that i'd photocopy the entire tract for him, but "i'll have to figure out which textbook it came from"- the look on his face was priceless.
i think the smart ones go as soon as they wake up.
isthisit
JoinedPosts by isthisit
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28
Are JWs Not Too Smart? Pros and Cons...
by Seeker4 inin alanf's thread on whether or not thirdson (or whoever!
) is a gb apologist, there are several posts discussing the intelligence of jws.
on that subject, this is what i observed from over 30 years as a jw:
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isthisit
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41
Rules you broke?
by KW13 in.
what rules did you find, you couldn't help breaking as a witness?.
i swore sometimes, got me and a mate drunk, copied software e.t.c (caesars things to caesar), celebrated a birthday/christmas or two...went against some stuff we were told not to do in the young people ask book...erm.... how about you?
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isthisit
went to university, an now on to evil post graduate! (didn't pioneer) Rowed for my uni at intra-europe level (associated with outsiders) Toasted to my friends health when ever we drank (in Irish, a language "rooted in paganism", according to one elder, i countered, "um so are latin and greek") drank (and drink) like a fish when required (including being caught underage drinking) swore (have never said the C word however) skipped meetings to go to concerts interested and very vocal about politics had the odd wank oh yeah , i'm still in, though only for a matter of weeks (2 and a bit)
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13
Are things really worse now?
by NikL inthis morning amidst the news of the possible terrorist attack involving planes from the
i told her that nothing happened.
she of course pointed out that this time it didnt but maybe next time.
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isthisit
i don't think things are worse, global communications have just got better. Bombs have always gone off, hell i live in a country that had threats of bombings and "terrorists" (or freedom fighters,depending on what side you are on). The thing is that everyone now has an opinion and can blog about it and mouth off on message boards (um) and on articles posted by journalists. It is all just perception because we have almost too much information about what is going on around us.
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11
my disassociation drafts, longish but i'd like comments....
by isthisit in<div> <div> <div>we decided to leave before being pushed, these are my letters, her letters are very similar but she is still working on them, any suggestions would be more than welcome....bear in mind my dad is po, should this change anything?
<br></br> ________________________________________________________________________________________________-- brothers this is perhaps the hardest letter i have had to write, and it is likewise the letter that i least expect to have to write.
as of this letter being received, i no longer consider myself as a jehovahs witness.
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isthisit
thanks for all your words of encouragement, JWFACTS- we did toy with the idea of putting a paragraph like that in, but we decided against it, because it would take many more pages of explanation, we have decided to leave in a simple manner. Both of us have cleared up our letters a bit, she will send copies both to her home congregation in the states and here. The plan is for the letters to be sent for the first week in September, we have a few things to clear up here, including a party on Friday, it will certainly be a bittersweet experiance. Our life in Boston is pretty much set up, we have an apartment and she has already got the basics set up, for us both to live in when i move in a few weeks. and! our B-list is already in place, her sister who is df'd is her witness at the wedding :-). Regardless of whether my parents show up or not, we are treating a few to dinner straight after.
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11
my disassociation drafts, longish but i'd like comments....
by isthisit in<div> <div> <div>we decided to leave before being pushed, these are my letters, her letters are very similar but she is still working on them, any suggestions would be more than welcome....bear in mind my dad is po, should this change anything?
<br></br> ________________________________________________________________________________________________-- brothers this is perhaps the hardest letter i have had to write, and it is likewise the letter that i least expect to have to write.
as of this letter being received, i no longer consider myself as a jehovahs witness.
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isthisit
<div> <div> <div>we decided to leave before being pushed, these are my letters, her letters are very similar but she is still working on them, any suggestions would be more than welcome....bear in mind my dad is PO, should this change anything? <br></br> ________________________________________________________________________________________________-- Brothers This is perhaps the hardest letter I have had to write, and it is likewise the letter that I least expect to have to write. As of this letter being received, I no longer consider myself as a Jehovah’s Witness. You are all no doubt well aware of our situation. <Name Removed> and I have been involved and increasing in our love for each other for some time, progressing, as we should towards marriage. In fact we plan to marry on October 7th in Boston. However this marriage will not be one “sanctioned” by Brooklyn. Obviously being beaten is not reason enough to leave a marriage and therefore <Name Removed> is not scripturally free remarry. Regardless of this fact, we are in love and plan to marry on the above date. Bro <appears-to-be-your-buddy-but-actually-isn’t> informed me at a rather informal shepherding that this marriage would considered at worst a disfellowshipping and at best a probable “permanent marking” offence. This fact was later confirmed by a call by Bro<old school but well meaning and like my grandfather> and Bro<head so far up his own ass he can’t see the daylight>. This is unacceptable to us. I have been nothing but a stand up brother, I have done all that is required of me , and more, holding down two “responsibilities” in the whole when there are enough brothers to go around, answered at every meeting, went out on service, did all I could when I could. We no longer wish to be members of an earthly organisation that will not recognise the god given right to happiness to two people. You as an organisation may not accept our relationship, I hope, and believe that Jesus and our Heavenly father, does. Brothers, this is not easy for me, but Mum and Dad both taught me that principles are far more important than the letter of the law, something that you seem to have forgotten. I hold no bitterness towards any of you; I love you all as brothers, friends and family. However I do not wish my name slandered among the brothers within our hall. It is with this in mind that I have drafted a letter to be sent to those within my circle of friends and brothers I had the most dealings with, to be sent in conjunction with this letter so that my name shall be clear among those of whom I called my brothers and friends in Christ. I will by no means hinder the work of the hall or of the organisation, we simply wish to live our years together in happiness and in peace in a union sanctioned by Caesar and by Christ. Your Brother Isthisit?<br> My dearest Parents This is the letter that I hoped never to have to write. I am leaving the organisation. Dad will have received the letter to be read to the body of elders on Tuesday, perhaps his last act as presiding overseer. You are well aware of my reasons. I always kept you involved with my life, you knew of <my love’s> past and accepted her into your life as I easily I took her into mine. However this is a relationship that “has no future” as far as Brooklyn and some of our body of elders is concerned. It is with this in mind that we are disassociating from the organisation. You know her past, you were aware of it, so I take this to mean that you approve. Dad, you were, and still are the elder I have most looked up to, Principles have always been the most important thing to you, I love you for this (in fact I love you for just being who you are) but not all on the body of elders agree, and neither does the organisation as was shown to be in the in the “pay attention” book. We are making a stand for what we believe to be right, our love for each other. I understand the position that we are putting ourselves and likewise putting you in. If you no longer wish to have dealings with us, we understand, these are standards set forth by Brooklyn. However regardless of this, we have booked a table for 6 in a restaurant in Boston on October 7th, we would love it if you can come, however if you cannot, I will take it that you no longer wish to have dealings with us. Please be assured that I love you, and this unconditional love will never stop, I will always send emails and pictures to let you know how we are, whether you respond is up to you, I leave it in your court. I love you, and will never stop. I have nothing bad to say about the way I was raised or the way I was treated, I was always happy as a child and I wish to continue this happiness into the future. With as Much love as can be put into the written word Your Son IsThisit
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16
Had dinner with some worldly friends, WTBTS is full of it
by thecarpenter injust had dinner with some worldly friends and relatives and what a great time i had.
it was sobering to think that i cut them out for so long and yet they are such nice people.
we were conditioned to believe that they were bad influences and were demon possessed but actually are quite decent and church going people with real strengths and weaknesses like everyone else.
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isthisit
i was always "encouraged" to have friends in the congregation but my folks always understood that i wasn't content with just that.At Uni i had a wide and diverse circle. I always enjoyed my nights out with them far more than meetings. Likewise sitting down over a coffee with one or all of them was far more enlightening than anything i experienced in the hall. My family always used to make the argument that they weren't "real" and that when things got tough they would fall away. Funnily enough when my uncle died suddenly last april, and we had to travel to galway for the funeral, non of my JW friends made the trip (he was a very active one, with an unbelieving and lovely woman) two of them came up for the funeral. I love my real friends in the hall. :-) i'm just glad that the fact they were in the world never bothered me
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a bit more of my story, maybe some advice needed
by isthisit inso, i'm in my twenties (still in) and with a sister who is 27 and neither of us are happy in the borg.
part of the problem is that she is divorced but not scriptually.
her ex was a nasty nasty piece of work and she was better off without him.
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isthisit
so, i'm in my twenties (still in) and with a sister who is 27 and neither of us are happy in the borg. Part of the problem is that she is divorced but not scriptually. Her ex was a nasty nasty piece of work and she was better off without him. Anyway we kept things quiet for quite some time, but we wanted to start being a normal couple (obviously within the witness constrains).
Anyway she is american, and in the last three weeks we have both been offered post graduate positions in the states, in the same city though not at the same college. Visa applications are a bitch and a half, i have to high tail it to the embassy at least once a week. Anyway here is problem (or perhaps solution).
We are engaged and are hoping to marry soon after going to the states. We have been told catagorically that we can't because it wasn't scriptural (obviously been beaten around is not grounds enough to leave someone). my elders are usually very reasonable but they aren't budging on this. If we do marry i apparantly will lose any prospect of privileges in the future. Both of us are talking about DA'ing or else getting married by a justice of the peace, and then living with being marked for an eternity.
What is the best course? we tend to think DA'ing. This really is the last straw. We are both tired of giving lipservice to something that we really no long believe in. Do we make a clean break? -
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DC in Ireland: Warning about groups of bros who want to modernise the WT
by truthseeker in.
i just heard this from someone who attended a district convention in ireland.. the brother told me that the speaker said that there were brothers forming groups to try and modernise the watchtower society.
has anyone heard anything like this in the usa?
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isthisit
there was an "apostasy" here in the 1980's and it caused some problems, some of them got "god complexes" themselves and others left and did nothing else. we had our convention 2 weeks ago and there was nothing mentioned about this. As for last week i can't say. Most of the main ones involved are either inactive on the campaign front or else moved on.
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72
Big announcement after all DC have ended?
by Quandary ini was told by a reliable source that the organization will be making a "big announcement" at the end of the summer when all the dcs have ended.
has anyone else heard this?
maybe this is the "new light" they have alluded to in recent wt study articles?
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isthisit
our conventions have already been planned for next year, we were told so at last weeks "banquet". i likewise heard this thing about an announcement. I was told off by the person telling me for being cynical about it. my response was "surely if the GB knew the date, they'd tell us straight away instead of all this hearsay about an announcement, remember no one knows the day or the hour". I'll put my money on a tract campaign, perhaps we are taking part in a new interpretation of a "trumpet blast" :-P
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19
"Oh that I should have to go thru this..."
by Hellrider inwhen my mother was on her deathbed, she mumbled these words: "oh, that i should have to go thru this...".
i was the one sitting there when she said that, half-way into a coma, and she sounded kind of surprised when she said that.
she was fanatic in her belief in jw-doctrine (although she was inactive the last few years of her life), and she fully believed that armageddon was coming "any day now".
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isthisit
I come from a long line of JW's, when my Grandmother died, i was sat having a beer with my dad (he is the PO) the day between the death and the funeral, we were talking about Grandma and Grandpa, what they got up to etc, and then he said something to me that i never expected to hear from him, "i remember being expressly told at an assembly that i would never have to bury my parents, the end was so close, and here we are, both dead within a year of each other, this means either the end is close or else everything i've believed in is bullshit". These words are verbatim (sic). He made a will the next day. It was funny, all my uncles and aunts said the same thing over the next day or two. Of course everything is now back to normal, but it was a chink i was never expecting to see.