article found here.. .
those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.
this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.
Berengaria:
I'm only speaking of my own experience and that on another forum. There are some atheists I count as very good friends. Maybe that's why they (exJW atheists) might have tried to sway me and some of our mutualr friends. I also note quite a bit of atheist rebuttal on this forum (just an observation)--this thread if you want an example.
I usually don't even get into the debates, but I thought this initial post was interesting; that's all.
~Binadub
my concordance searches indicate eve is mentioned twice in the ot and twice in the new.
i guess elsewhere in genesis she must be the wife or the woman.
interesting: since she was the only woman in the world and adam was the only man, i wonder how husband and wife as terminology were invented?
What if "Satan" the "Devil" is simply the antithesis of the "Holy Spirit"?
~Binadub
article found here.. .
those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.
this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.
King Solomon:
I (respectfully :-) disagree that atheists do not try to convert others.
That may be more true of the 30% atheists who are raised as atheists, who take it for granted, than for those who "converted" to atheism after disillusionment with religion.
My experience is that exJW atheists do try to persuade others, especially exJWs, quite dogmatically in fact. On the other hand, I do not try to persuade neophyte atheists away from their perspective, since I believe they have made a fairly informed intentional decision.
God perspective has little to do with intelligence or education.
BoC:
Thanks for posting this. I probably would not agree with your religious view, but I think it is interesting (for what any poll is worth) that the indication is 70% of those professed to be raised atheists converted to a religion or perhaps theism/deism. Interesting!
~Binadub
it's interesting how dubs are portrayed in tv shows.
what's interesting is how little the people who write those scripts know about the religion.
i'll give two examples and then solicit others you folks may recall.. the first example comes from the pilot episode of the tv series "lie to me.
I don't know if this exactly fits the theme, but my JW elder CO brother related this one to me (when he was alive).
Remember Rodney Dangerfield, the guy who "never got respect"? This was one of his examples:
I never get any respect.
One time the door bell rang and I answered it. There stood two Jehovah's Witnesses. They looked at me and then looked at each other. They looked back at me and said: "We're not interested."
Another one that my brother told when the winter weather was being reported during a blizzard. Reportedly the weatherman in that area reported that "the storm is so bad, Jehovah's Witnesses are saying if you want your magazines you'll have to come and get them."
~Binadub (aka Ros)
i am just curious about this because although i agree with many of the posters here that the wt society is guilty of many horrible deeds, i still believe they are right when it comes to doctrinal things as i mention.
especially hellfire.
i just don't see how anybody that has studied the bible for many years like many of the ex-jws here can make an about face and go back to believing hellfire.
botchtowersociety:
Granted, your opinion is certainly well with the mainstream opinion of popular orthodoxy. :-)
The third-century Cataholic historians you quoted unquestionably laid the foundation for asserting that Peter's ministry established the church of Rome in Rome, even though the principle apostle there was Paul. The position is less supported by Josephus and Philo.
Scholars are in disagreement about those traditions. My inclination is to agree with the scholars who believe that "Babylon" in 1Pet.3:15 was the important Roman fortress (at the time) of Babylon in Egypt where a large population of Jews resided--as they did in Alexandria as well. There were a lot of Jews in Egypt who had migrated there from the Babylonian (Mesopotamia) diaspora. As you know, Peter sent Mark to Egypt, Peter being the apostle to the Jews; Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.
You countered: Revelation also speaks of "Babylon." I really doubt it referred to an Egyptian fortress.
Most bible theologians don't think it refers to Rome either. :-)
(Some do--e.g., the Preterists who believe all of Revelation was fulfilled in the first century CE/AD.)
As I pointed out, the Rome theory is the most prominent in orthodox Christianity (for obvious reasons). Naturally, for every reference you could quote in support of Roman Catholic history, there are scholars who could be quoted who disagree. Evidence is sparce and proof doesn't exist.
With reference to Jewish populations between Rome and Egypt in the first century, here are a few (if you are interested):
http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diaspora/rome.html
It is possible to estimate the number of Roman Jews during the reign of Augustus. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus mentions a lawsuit in which 8,000 Jews from Rome sided with one of the parties (Jewish antiquities 2.80). They must have been adult men, because women and children were not permitted to take part in a lawsuit. Since a nuclear family consisted of at least four or five members, there must have been some 40,000 Jews. It is likely that this number rose after the mass deportation of prisoners of war after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE. This is mirrored by the enormous size of the Monteverde catacomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
7000 Jews at the commencement of the reign of Caesar Agustus (27 BC to 14 AD).
(To be fair, this represents the voting heads of families, so it is estimated it may have been around 35,000 counting women and children.)
In Egypt, Alexandria alone is thought to have had over a million Jews whereas the population of Jews in Rome is estimated in the 10,000s to possible 100,000 at most.
Notable: Alexandria is where the Septuigent scriptures were translated from Hebrew to Greek.
http://www.headcoverings-by-devorah.com/TheJewishDiaspora.htm
The Jewish communities of the Diaspora were largely urban. Alexandria, according to Philo (Contra Flacum 43), boasted a Jewish population of over 1,000,000. Probably founded in the early years of the Ptolemy dynasty, at it's height, the Jewish community of Alexandria formed the majority in at least two out of the city's five major neighborhoods. While the Alexandrian Jews welcomed the Hellenistic influence, they also developed a rich Jewish culture. Greek largely replaced Hebrew as the major language of daily life. For the very first time, the Bible was translated, according to Jewish legend during the reign of Ptolemy II (285-246 BCE). The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible made the sacred text accessible to the entire Greek world.
. . .
The Jewish population of Rome may have numbered in the tens of thousands by the reign of Augustus. Twelve synagogue sites, and six burial sites have been identified in Rome dating from the first centuries BCE and CE.
. . .
Their crushing defeat in 117 CE left the once magnificent Alexandrian community, and the communities of Cyrene and Cyprus in smoldering ruin.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/diaspora.html
. . . Rome itself, seems to have something on the order of ten different synagogue congregations, and the Jewish population of the city of Rome at its zenith was perhaps 100,000. Unfortunately, we have no archaeological evidence of the actual synagogue buildings themselves from the city of Rome but fortunately, a recent archaeological discovery from the nearby port city of Ostia, shows us one such congregation, in its very real setting.
Alexandria, the capital of the Ptolemies and the intellectual center of Hellenistic civilization, became one of the most populous Jewish communities in the world between the third century BCE and the end of the first century CE, numbering several hundred thousand at least.
==============
But these are only about the populations of Jews. There is just as remarkable a history of first-centiry Christianity in Egypt as there is in Rome if you look up Coptic history. Not to mention the rather close proximity of Egypt to Jerusalem. It is pretty well established that this is where the Septuigent was translated.
But . . . we all have our reasons. :-)
~Binadub
i am just curious about this because although i agree with many of the posters here that the wt society is guilty of many horrible deeds, i still believe they are right when it comes to doctrinal things as i mention.
especially hellfire.
i just don't see how anybody that has studied the bible for many years like many of the ex-jws here can make an about face and go back to believing hellfire.
Leolaia:
Thanks for your reply.
The traditions locating Mark in Egypt place him in Alexandria, not 130 miles to the south at the Babylon Fortress in Old Cairo, nor do they posit Peter as accompanying him in Egypt. . . .
I'm very familiar with the popular orthodox (Catholic) "traditions" about the scripture 1 Pet.5:13 assigning the greeting from "Babylon" as meaning Rome as well as the Coptic history of Mark in Alexandria. You find a different perspective if you do a search on the Coptic history of Christianity (Egypt) in the first century.
Scholars are in disagreement about those traditions. My inclination is to agree with the scholars who believe that "Babylon" in 1Pet.3:15 was the important Roman fortress (at the time) of Babylon in Egypt where a large population of Jews resided--as they did in Alexandria as well. There were a lot of Jews in Egypt who had migrated there from the Babylonian (Mesopotamia) diaspora. As you know, Peter sent Mark to Egypt, Peter being the apostle to the Jews; Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.
Here are some links if you are interested:
The author of this essay believes 1Pet.5:13 was referring to Babylon in Egypt:
http://www.oodegr.com/english/papismos/dogma/petros_rwmi1.htm
Fragments of the "Gospel of Peter" were found in Egypt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Peter
The Gospel of Peter was recovered in 1886, by the French archaeologist, Urbain Bouriant, in the modern Egyptian city of Akhmim (sixty miles north of Nag Hammadi). The 8th or 9th century manuscript had been respectfully buried with an Egyptian monk. The fragmentary Gospel of Peter was the first non-canonical gospel to have been rediscovered, preserved in the dry sand of Egypt. Publication, delayed by Bouriant until 1892, occasioned intense interest. From the passion sequence that is preserved, it is clear that the gospel was a narrative gospel, but whether a complete narrative similar to the canonical gospels or simply a Passion cannot be said.
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/synexarion/mark.html
Under "Quick Facts":
He [Mark] was the founder of Christianity in Egypt or in Alexandria at least. He came to Alexandria approximately 48 AD. Foot Note: According to some sources, St. Peter preached in Babylon about the same time St. Mark was in Alexandria, however he [Peter] focussed on the Jews of Babylon (A city near Memphis, Cairo now ).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter
Church tradition ascribes the epistles First and Second Peter to Apostle Peter, as does the text of Second Peter itself. First Peter implies the author is in "Babylon," which has been held to be a coded reference to Rome (1 Peter 5:13). Although, Babylon was an important fortress city in Egypt, just north of today's Cairo and this fact is combined with the "greetings from Marc" (1 Peter 5:13), who is regarded as founder of the Church of Alexandria (Egypt); thus other scholars put the First Peter epistle to be written in Egypt.Some[who?] scholars regard First Peter as not authored by him, and there is still considerable debate about the Petrine authorship of Second Peter. However the Greek in both books is similar, and the early Church was adamantly opposed to pseudographical authorship.
These are a few examples of scholars who do not agree with the "traditional" understanding that Peter meant Rome when he said Babylon. There is also debate as to whether "Babylon" was really even a popular metaphor for Rome in the first century.
Thanks,
~Binadub
Does anyone else remember a record he made that somewhat mimicked Shakespherian poetry. It was sometime in the late 60s I think. What I remember of it (example) in his most southern drawl:
Lo, when ah saw mah luv'
She wuz standin' bah th sea;
But alas, ah cannot ketch mah luv,
For she is swift, an out-runneth me.
It was a whole two sides of a record of such poetic nonsense. I loved it. The world has lost a genius.
~Binadub
i have a relative coming over because he's concerned about my spiritual health.
i said i have some legitimate concerns about the watchtower claiming to be god's representative on earth.
we agreed to do a frank and open (if that's even possible) study of 1914 doctrine, and the "nu lite" about the overlapping generations.. does anyone have good questions or points to shoot-down the 1914 doctrine, and the "nu lite" on overlapping generations?
Jeffro:
Thanks for that awesome link. GREAT work.
~Binadub
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Hello Dazed:
Congratulations on two things: Waking up from JWism and two years sober.
I think you would find AA a good organization to associate with, especially as you are exiting a controlling religion. You'll find good neutral fellowship there.
~Binadub
dr just told me that i inherited this health problem.
.
has anyone had any success in winning over this desease?.
I'm not diabetic, but my JW CO elder brother was a type 1 insulin-dependent diabetic from the age of 21. He didn't follow a good program of diet, plus he drank alcohol (a no-no). He was never worried about having to be careful about his diet because Armageddon was always just around the corner and he was soon going to survive and be healed in the new Earth. After a kidney transplant in the 1980s, he still did not adhere to a sound nutritional program and continued to drink booze (not a drunkard as far as I know). He was certain that Armageddon would come before 2000AD. He didn't make it to 2000.
Good balanced diet, exercise, and avoid sugar and alcohol (which becomes glucose in the system like sugar, only worse). It is important. Don't wait for Armageddon. :-)
~Binadub
