Posts by seattleniceguy

29

yet another newbie

by walkaway in

hello everyone, i am brand new, thought i would say hello.

i am still "in" the org, still serving "faithfully" in the hall that i grew up in.

my father is the po and i am part somewhat of a dynasty, with all my extended family being witnesses.

seattleniceguy

Welcome walkaway!
The path to mental freedom is challenging but beautiful. Sounds like you are well on your way. Congratulations for doing what few can.
SNG

19

JW environment and emotional well being

by greendawn in

how many of you felt that the jw environment you once lived in was accepting, warm, supporting, nourishing, and wholesome, a place where the emotional world of man could flourish experience a blissful state of well being and attain inner fulfillment?

seattleniceguy

To the day I left, I believed that the Witnesses only had my best interests at heart. I left without any true awareness of the sociological problems within the organization. Since I was a true believer, I did indeed think that the environment was, in your words, "accepting, warm, supporting, nourishing, and wholesome," and I actually did argue with my dad (during one of my brief telephone calls before I cut off all communication with him) that Witnesses were among the mentally healthiest people on earth. (Yes, I now grasp the cruel irony.)
Ironically, it was only after my mental exit from their doctrines that I began to see the true extent of mental unhealth in the organization. Part of this came as a result of long email exchanges with people trying to reel me back in. I began to notice that their behavior and response mechanisms were totally robotic. I could almost watch the minds turn off at a certain, predictable point in the conversation. A person who hides from facts is not mentally healthy. Their universe is wound up in maintaining their current view of the world, and anything that challenges it is a threat. Such a person lives in a dark, cold cave.
Finally, I began to see the subtle manipulation that occurs in every aspect of JW life. Probably, it is exactly this ubiquity that makes it so hard to see. To a person immersed in the JW life, it is an everyday - nay, every-minute - aspect of life, so it becomes transparent. Only by living in the real world for a bit can one take a step back and see there are other, much healthier, ways of living.
I now see that it is impossible to find emotional well-being among the Witnesses. The culture is one of self-deceit, emotional repression, and oppression of individuality. I believe that JWs are among the most emotionally unwell people on this planet. I sincerely hope that survivors of it are able to find emotional health. I believe I am on this path.
SNG

283

Time again for........ Congregation roll call

by Jourles in

it's been a while since this topic has been brought up.

use it as a chance to see if there is someone you might know from years past.

1973-1976 --- lakeside, ca??

seattleniceguy

1978 - 1987 Sandy West, Oregon
1987 - 1989 Stapleton Road, Vancouver, Washington
1989 - 1998 Cowlitz, Longview, Washington
1998 - 2001 Northgate, Seattle, Washington
2001 - 2003 Central, Seattle, Washington
September 5, 2003 about 10:30 pm: Scales fall from eyes. Mental freedom begins in earnest the next day.
SNG

42

What are the first things you notice when you enter a JW home?

by JH in

jw
friends

a) you'll find no ash trays.

b) no lottery tickets laying on the counter.

c) a jw calendar in sight for everyone to see.

seattleniceguy

I know it's becoming a theme here, but those ugly bound volumes and hideously color-schemed older yearbooks. I swear, you'd be able to see those things behind a lead wall.
The sight of those things is like a triggering memory for me. I instantly become kind of depressed and tired when I see them. Almost like a sympathetic reaction for the poor souls that still live under their "enlightenment."
SNG

57

Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

lori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).

and i had quite a discussion last night.

i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.

seattleniceguy

Yes, it has. It is something that I am trying to correct.
I think there are two causes. First and foremost, having a revelation moment and coming out of a patently false belief system gives you instant insight into many other falsehoods out there, and it begins to seems absurd that other people cannot or will not see the reality too. This is a common experience to all ex-JWs.
But I think in many cases there is another factor at play. We live in an era of instant fact-checking capabilities. Refusing to connect the dots is one thing, but refusing to avail oneself of simple, factual information - refusing to see that the dots are there, as it were - is unforgivable. Being unable or unwilling to relinquish long-held ideas, I can understand. But intentionally putting one's head in the sand strains my ability for compassion.
I understand that the two are related, and I must be honest and remember that I myself was there for a long time as well. So at this point I am working on adopting a more Buddha-like attitude and making information available to people when they choose to accept it, rather than trying to make people see what they clearly are not ready to see.
SNG

23

What do you feel is truly and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

a friend of mine told me tonight that he believes something is impossible.

this happens to be a something that i feel is not only possible, but 100% proven beyond all doubt.

interesting.

seattleniceguy

I don't know if this is a word, but I'd say I am a "possibilist." I immensely enjoy doing things that are impossible. And aside from silly logic games like the immovable object versus the unstoppable force, I tend to believe that most things are possible, that most problems are solvable, even if we can't do it now.
However, regrettably, I would say that it is impossible that the Witnesses are right. This does not reflect bias on my part. It reflects an impossibility for me to "unknow" all the things that show that they are totally, totally wrong. And even if I did suffer some sort of amnesia, it would only mean that I forgot that they were wrong, not that they were actually right.
It is nearly impossible for me to speak to fundamentalists and not roll my eyes more than I should. I can muster it, but it is a challenge.
It has proven impossible for me to have the same level of interest in video games as I did when I was 14 years old. This could change, however, with the advent of holodeck-style technologies.
I believe it will be impossible for me ever to convert to any form of religion.
...
To answer your question seriously, actually, when I think about it, I'm not willing to say many things are impossible. Even the items on your list, which I have a very high degree of confidence in, might be possible. In practical terms, I am utterly convinced that the dead cannot kill the living. But my experiences with absolutism instruct me to always hold out the possibility, however absurd the position appears to be, that things might be different than they appear. That is to say, almost all of my beliefs are provisional, based of the evidence at hand.
I say, "almost all my beliefs" because there is one class of belief that does not require provisional conviction. I think you gave the best example of that recently in your comment about bats. It is commonly believed that they cannot see, when in fact, they can see just fine. After having learned the fact, how could one possibily revert to the old position? (Actually, I must admit that I know nothing about bat sight, so this example is based on the supposition that your example was accurate. But it illustrates the point: it is not possible to revert from knowledge to ignorance.)
And that is why the one absolute conviction I have is that the Witnesses are not what they claim. I have a very high degree of conviction that other religions (such as Mormons) are also not what they claim, but because my experience and research have been most highly focused on the Witnesses, they are the only ones about which I can honestly and uninhibitedly say I have sufficiently complete knowledge to make this (rare) absolute statement.
SNG

136

Something I want to tell you apostates

by LeftBehind in

jw
friends

i want you to know that you have destroyed a family because of your lies about jehovah and his organization.

a family member went apostate and has turned his back on jehovah.

he told us he is never coming back and i know he went and visited internet sites.

seattleniceguy

LeftBehind, please think about something you said:
>> As long as the links are not apostate I will look at them.
How would you define "apostate"? You'd probably give this label to any information that contradicts the Watchtower, right? But if that's the case, you're basically saying, "I won't look at any information that contradicts my worldview." You have created an insulated world that is protected from anything that might challenge it, by simplying dismissing everything else as "apostate." This is not an effective means of understanding reality.
Rather than seeing information as a challenge to your belief system, why not let your belief system be shaped by the facts?
Best wishes on your journey.
SNG

128

Is there any hope of you coming back to Jehovah?

by LeftBehind in

jw
friends

my brother is a self proclaimed apostate.

i see now that there is a wide variety of posters here.

so to those that have left the witnesses what would it take to get you back?

seattleniceguy

LeftBehind,
I'm really glad to see you stuck around.
It's really important to understand that people who leave the organization are almost nothing like the organization makes them out to be. The vast majority of people leave for sincere reasons. Myself, I simply came to find that it was impossible to believe their doctrines any longer. I learned enough about the Bible, logic, and the natural world to see that their teachings just didn't add up. Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But I did it because I could not stand to believe things that were not true.
Why don't you talk to your brother?
SNG

62

I don't know if this is the right place for but please someone help me out.

by rohrix in

first and foremost let me describe my situation.

i am a senior in high school.

i've had a very rough past and alot of people have wronged me in many ways.

seattleniceguy

rohrix,
If you value emotional stability and mental clarity, then stay clear of the Witnesses.
defd,
Dude. You just "hopskotched" over a reply that you had directly solicited. That's not cool. Mysterious gave you a superb example of WT hopskotching, and you ignored it by saying, "The Bible is harmonious." That's not a response. The entire 1914 chronology argument is based on a couple verses in Daniel and a couple in Revelation. If that's not hopskotching, I don't know what is. Now show some humility, and admit to the woman that she has a good point.
rohrix,
Notice, this is something about Witnesses. They will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever, ever infinity, admit that someone else's viewpont is valid, if it doesn't agree with the Watchtower viewpoint. Trust me, I've been there, you don't want to be there.
SNG

96

What has "Unintelligent Design" been observed to make?

by hooberus in

millions of complex objects (cameras, adjustable wrenches, etc.

) have been seen to come into existence under the direction/workmanship of intelligent designers.

however, despite the often even greater complexity of biologiocal systems* we are often told that only unintelligent processes can be considered as "scientific explanations" for the origin of these structures.

seattleniceguy

This has been an interesting debate. I've enjoyed reading Abaddon's posts - I always feel like my powers of logic are subtly refined after seeing someone's argument get pruned down to the essentials by this sharp thinker.

One comment to Daystar.
>> Your entire premise is based upon the faith that there is a God to begin with. If your team and the other team can't see eye to eye on that, one way or the other, then the rest of the debate is useless, IMHO.
I understand where you are coming from, but you make it sound as if belief/non-belief in God is the dichotomy that separates creationists from evolutionists. This is simply not the case. There are a great deal of people who believe in God AND accept evolution. It is true that very few, if any, non-theists would be in the creationist camp, but there are many theists in the evolutionist camp. Hey, I guess that means the evolutionist camp is more encompassing. Or, it has better s'mores. Or something. :-)
SNG