Posts by OneEyedJoe

44

Verifiable proof of Jesus' existance outside the Bible

by unsure in

thought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..

OneEyedJoe

May I ask why your faith is so dependent on whether or not this man actually existed? Why not consider the fact that there was clearly a huge shift in the first century where hundreds of thousands and even up to millions of people were willing to die and be persecuted over a minority faith both within the realm of Judaism and the Roman Empire. For such a shift in consciousness to have occurred so suddenly within one generation would suggest something real took place.

Why would someone rest their faith on whether or not Jesus existed? Are you seriously asking that? It's the keystone of the entirety of Christian doctrine - if there's no Jesus, there's no salvation. The end. Your argument that lots of people died because of this could easily be applied to JWs - or don't you think that the fact that tens of thousands of JWs were willing to die or let their children die for want of a blood transfusion is convincing evidence of the validity of that belief system?

You can debate whether or not this thing has any real meaning or significance to you or humanity but I think it's pretty evident that something real actually did happen.

You can debate whether or not it had any significance to humanity, but I think it's pretty evident that something real actually happened in 1914, given all the JWs that have died in concentration camps, for refusal of medical treatment or while taking a stand for their neutrality based on their belief in 1914.

44

Verifiable proof of Jesus' existance outside the Bible

by unsure in

thought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..

OneEyedJoe

The evidence for Jesus seems to pretty much rely entirely on the bible and Josephus. Sometimes you'll also get a list of people from that time that didn't dispute the existence of Jesus and have that presented as evidence for him, but you don't see a lot of folks going around disputing the existence of batman nowadays either, so that's hardly convincing.

On the topic of Josephus - from what (admittedly limited) reading I've done on that, all of his mentions of Jesus are, at best, of questionable authenticity. Stuff written in margins, footnotes added later, that kind of thing. Even if you assume that he did in fact author everything that's attributed to him, he was born after Jesus' supposed death so it'd be a bit like if I were the only independent source to corroborate the existence of Bob Marley.

20

Watchtower says: if your unbelieving relatives think you are in a cult, try to see things from their point of view

by cognisonance in

12 have empathy for unbelieving relatives.

while we may be overjoyed about the bible truths we have learned, our relatives may mistakenly believe that we have been tricked or have become part of a cult.

we should show empathy by trying to see things from their viewpoint and by listening carefully to discern their real concerns.

OneEyedJoe

When I was in, it always bothered me how much effort they seemed to put in to explaining why it wasn't a cult.

Another effect I can see of this, if JWs follow the advice, is that if the unbelieving relatives have only a cursory suspicion that JWs are a cult the JW is going to react in a way that will probably ease their concerns. All the same persecution complex alarms will be going off in the JW's head, but it seems that the goal here is to essentially leave the concerned relative feeling a bit silly. Basically this is saying to put on a show of listening to the other person to make them feel better while internally discounting everything they say so that it won't get any purchase.

42

Why Are More JWs Claiming to be Anointed?

by Ding in

most jws i know claim they are happy being in the great crowd.

they'd rather live on a paradise earth and pet lions than go to heaven.. heaven is a place they can't relate to, a place where they don't expect their friends and loved ones to be.. so why are more and more jws claiming to be of the anointed?.

aren't they looked down upon as if they are crazy, proud, ignorant, or engaging in apostate thinking?.

OneEyedJoe

I've only known one of the "newly anointed" so this experience is purely anecdotal. This would've been about 5 years ago, I think - there was a kid that was about 19-20 that partook. One of those zealots that put on a constant show of how holy he was - really terrible to be around. Full of himself and how great he was. He was also one of the least intelligent people in the congregation and was very sheltered from the world.

The cynical side of me also thinks that at least a portion of the newly anointed are doing it mostly out of ambition, since it can definitely help you move up the ladder if you play your cards right.

6

What do you Think Would Happen ... if ...?

by TerryWalstrom in

what do you think would happen.... .

if the size of your city doubled and the increase in population was because jehovah's witnesses had moved in?.

or scientologists?

OneEyedJoe

If a million JWs moved in to my city, I'd start a business selling "No Trespassing" signs and I'd make a killing.

11

Noah's shuttle ferry. A biblical defender's excuse?

by stuckinarut2 in

we just realised that everyone has had it wrong!

the bible even got it wrong.. noah didn't build an ark that stopped in one place.

no my friends, it was actually more of a shuttle ferry that had multiple stops on its journey.

OneEyedJoe

The story of Noah's ark has so many obvious holes that it almost feels unsporting to attack it.

6

Is the org. Like Jehovah or Jesus?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

was thinking.

this is jehovah's org.

so now let's take a look at jehovah's character, he gets angry yet he forgives sometimes a lot sometimes not so much but got to admit, he always sent a warning.

OneEyedJoe

I think the org is slooooowly trying to be more like Jesus because Jehovah don't take no mess.

I don't think the changes in the cult are thought out along those lines at all. I think the higher ups and GB see that things aren't going very well so they're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. It seems to be the strategy that they've always had - they try something and if it seems to keep people from leaving or indoctrinate people more strongly they'll keep it. If not, then they'll either officially retire it or just stop talking about it until it goes away.

I think now they're just trying to appeal to a younger audience so they've tried to inject a little superficial fun and enthusiasm but underneath it's the same old authoritarian structure and control.

32

After being in the so-called "Truth" makes me despise all religions.

by Fader812 in

after being a jw made me lose trust in religion, from the lies, hypocrisy and greed of this organization made me lose faith completely.

what does one do after this mind f$%@, what is there to look forward to?

do i make up my own agnostic theory in head and hope for the best?

OneEyedJoe

The very nature of religious doctrine and faith makes me despise all religion. Growing up in a cult just made it more obvious that it deserves no respect.

15

North Korea viral video and JW Comparison.

by pleaseresearch in

i watched this video yesterday from this brave young north korean woman.

hearing her share her experiences living in her country and what the people go through on a day to day basis is so very similar to jws today and how we lived.. please watch and tell me your thoughts.. thank you.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ijj3insyk.

.

OneEyedJoe

I'm gonna say the north koreans have it a little worse than do JWs.

33

Study with an Elder - propose a question.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello there.. as some of you might remember i am keeping my facade up by "studying" with an elder.

this study however is more of a session where i put hard questions about the org, doctrine and so on, on the table.

the time has come for the next session in a couple of days, and i have quite frankly lost the will to keep digging up things that just shouldn't be happening.

OneEyedJoe

Now that I've done my best to help with your actual request, I can't help but go a little beyond....You say that you're interested in a girl, not god. This concerns me greatly. Is this girl, perhaps, a JW? If she is, please allow me to give you some unsolicited advice that has been given many times on this forum (and it has been shown to be good advice every time it has been ignored). If you're going after a JW, just cut your losses and walk away now. Anyone that wants you to study with an elder as a prerequisite for a relationship is not someone that you want to deal with. Even if she agrees to leave the cult right now, she could well be a ticking time bomb just waiting for some major life event to send her falling back in. It's happened to many on this forum - marry someone who was raised JW and left without ever really seeing that it was a cult and that they were brainwashed only to have the death of a family member or the birth of a child send them back to the cult, leaving the non-JW in a world of confusion and pain when they watch their spouse turn into a cult automaton. It's not worth it. Walk away now.

If you're feeling particularly charitable, tell her that you're worried for her and you think that she's in an overly controlling religion that does not have her best interests at heart. Tell her that you can't be in a relationship with someone that's being controlled by their religion to such a degree, that you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who will always invariably put a religious organization before you. And tell her that if she ever sees what you see, if she ever desires to leave but fears for her lack of social net outside of her group that will shun her should she leave, that you'll be there to support her and be her friend. That's the kindest thing you can do for her. At the same time, though, you have to be kind to yourself - don't waste years of your life chasing after a cultist that will drop you should the right person in authority in her cult direct her to do so. It's not worth it.

Now if that's not what you meant when you were talking about a girl, then I'll feel a little silly. But it doesn't hurt to put this out there yet again for posterity's sake and maybe someone else to whom it applies will happen upon it.