Study with an Elder - propose a question.

by CitizenofEarth 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • CitizenofEarth

    Hello there.

    As some of you might remember i am keeping my facade up by "studying" with an Elder. This study however is more of a session where i put hard questions about the Org, doctrine and so on, on the table. The time has come for the next session in a couple of days, and i have quite frankly lost the will to keep digging up things that just shouldn't be happening. Now this is not laziness, as i have went through more than three books, including CoC, the Australian Royal Comitee videos (was i the only one almost screaming at my screen i anger when seeing this?), almost all of jw.facts and this forum too in the search for more. But my interest lies in astronomy, soccer, and one girl - not God, doctrine and human errors.

    Alas - to the point. If anyone feels like it, i would appreciate if you would put out an example of a question i could pose about almost anything relating to the Org which could occupy two grown people for several hours - especially one who has been a devout witness for decades, and an Elder for years. Remember that nothing hinders me from bringing a topic up that i have already brought up before, which is why i just throw such a wide request out here. Maybe you have different ways to pose questions that could cast more light on a subject.



  • Alfred

    Ask him why none of the JW publications mention the book "The Even Tide" written in 1823 by English Bible prophecy speculator John Aquila Brown. This book is what started it all.

  • tepidpoultry

    Astronomy! Carl Sagan wrote reams about evidential reasoning, on a bit of a tangent is all the evidence against a 4000 year old flood and 6000 year old man, complete skeletons of early man etc but you will have to read up somewhere, find a ready source of information hmm :) (there's this magic google button I've heard about)

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    Hey! Someone posted a list of questions on a thread about a news article pertaining to the upcoming convention where it stated "all questions will be welcomed at this convention," or something. I apologize deeply as I do not remember who the poster of these incredible questions is, but I did copy and paste them into a Word doc to keep handy. This is the poster's list of questions below. If anyone remembers who the author is, please let me know so I can give them the rightful credit.

    01. Was C.T. Russel guided by the holy spirit when he predicted the end for 1914 and then changed it to 1915?

    02. Was C.T. R. Guided by Gods spirit when he taught phrenology and pyramidology?

    03. Why did C.T.R. abandon Nelson Barbour over doctrinal dispute, yet no JW today is allowed to do the same as they will be called apostates and mentally diseased and running ahead of Gods chariot?

    04. Why was Rutherford allowed to proclaim himself as a "Judge" and advertised as "Judge" Rutherford if JW's tell everyone that they don't accept titles like Reverend or Father? BTW Rutherford was never an official Judge so why did he lie and no one stopped him?

    05. Did God guide Rutherford to predict the end of the world for 1918, 1925 & 1941? If not, where did he get those ideas from?

    06. Did the WT refund the money donated by their followers for building a mansion in San Diego for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and others? Why on earth would these prophets want to live in San Diego?

    07. If JW's are not a cult, why are JW's obligated to accept without question whatever the GB says is truth even though it may change in a couple of weeks?

    08. Why is there no mention of the Douglas Walsh 1954 trial where H.D. Covington admits that the Unity of the WT organization is "unity at all cost" even if it means accepting false doctrine? (See transcript) Any JW refusing to accept what the GB says will be df.

    09. The brochure "face the facts" Rutherford predicted that Italy, Japan & Germany would win WW2 and conquer America and its allies. Why didn't this come true if Gods spirit directs the Orgnization?

    10. How can the GB demand blind obedience from the followers when they have over 130 yrs of false prophecies?

    11. Doesn't Deuteronomy 18:20-22 mean anything to JW's?

  • CitizenofEarth

    Thank you Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho. I did not know anything about nr. 8 and 9, so those will be very, very, useful!

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @CitizenofEarth Urgh, thank the genius poster who listed the questions!! Whoever he/she is.... THANK YOU!

  • tepidpoultry

    Hi, if you're interested in how Science disproves the Bible I suggest Aron Ra's Youtube videos He has several on the Flood alone :0)

  • OneEyedJoe

    My plan for the next time I get JWs at my door is to ask a few questions and follow up with a scripture. Now, this is more for a short conversation and won't occupy you for hours but it's perhaps worth bringing up due to its simplicity.

    My plan is to first ask what they believe regarding Jesus' return - they'll have to admit that they believe he has returned. Then I'll ask if they believe that armageddon is comming soon, they'll have to admit that they do. Then I'll ask them to read what Jesus himself said at Luke 21:8 - from the cult bible:

    He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.

    Then I'll ask them why anyone should disobey Jesus' very specific commands not to follow after people that come in his name, claim to be him (or that he has returned and they represent him) and are saying that the end is near. I'll suggest that the combination of their doctrine and this scripture completely undermines their entire ministry and that for anyone to become a JW they first have to go directly against one of Jesus' commands.

  • DesirousOfChange

    01. Was C.T. Russel guided by the holy spirit when he predicted the end for 1914 and then changed it to 1915?

    In recent years, WTS has thrown Chuck Russell "under the bus" as they now claim the F&DS was not chosen until 1919 (after Russell's death) thus he was just "another sincere seeker of Bible Truth".

    Personally, I like questions #10 and #11. And, add Luke 21:8 in the mix there: [8He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.]

    Ask him to explain the difference between "spirit directed" and "inspired". How is it that those who are "spirit directed" are so prone to making errors in "doctrine and organizational direction"? Is there some communication error between the HS and the GB?

  • littlerockguy

    I believe the poster who listed those questions was Terry.

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