OneEyedJoe

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Posts by OneEyedJoe

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  14

  Sheeplike?? A Christian Requirement or WT Controlling mechanism?

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when we were practising witnesses we heard a lot about the need to be "sheeplike" , having a sheeplike attitude and personality .

  a typical comment might be :.

  "lasting peace & happiness just ahead" 2009 p 30.

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  OneEyedJoe

  The constant talk telling us to be "sheeplike" always bothered me when I was in. Even then, it seemed like a way of encouraging blind obedience. Same thing with the warnings about "independent thinking" and being childlike. When I found the BITE model and Hassan's references to cults age-regressing members and encouraging them to be like children before god, it made so much sense.
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  25

  Jehovah God Is Not Real

  by Onager in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are many of us on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists.. i think this is a great and wonderful thing to be celebrated!

  i'd like people to list the reasons why they do not believe that jehovah exists.

  this is open to all, not just atheists or agnostics, but anyone that believes that the god as put forward by jw.org does not and can not be real.. i'll start: .

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  OneEyedJoe

  I think Pierre-Simon Laplace put it best when questioned about why he didn't mention god in his explanation of planetary motion. "I had no need of that hypothesis." Simply put, there is nothing that the existence of god explains that warrants such a grand leap as to assume a deity. While there may be some gaps in our understanding of the universe, those gaps are steadily shrinking and the trend demonstrates that any time someone tries to insert god into the equation, another simpler explanation is soon to follow.
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  12

  Taking up a Cause

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so recently, my jw wife asks me if i ever considered taking up a cause.it was a question out of the blue, coming off of a discussion about politics.

  so while it was unsaid, she was really getting at whether i was considering being politically active in some way.. i already have a standard answer that i have used before with other people, so i said it.

  "no, i will be content to work and get by then retire and sit in the sun with a good book and a cold water.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Very well said. In the back of my mind I've been trying to find a succinct way to explain why I'm not super involved in causes like some of my friends are, should it ever come up. You've done a great job of that. Thank you.
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  21

  If you read the bible w/out instruction, what would you think?

  by TTWSYF in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  anyone reading [or did read] the bible without someone else telling you what it meant?.

  would you be leaning towards the jws or baptists or lutherans or what?.

  just asking.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I'd be leaning towards the idea that its a hodgepodge of stories (some of which based on history) written by men who were trying to explain and control their world with limited knowledge of how the universe worked. I'd find that in doing so, they invented a god full of contradictions and enormous moral flaws that deserves worship from no one. It is only due to someone else telling you that it's inspired (i.e. telling you what it means) that anyone forms a religion based on the bible. If you had someone that was raised completely outside of that influence and you gave them the lord of the rings and the bible, they'd see them as being no different from one another (ok well the lord of the rings is definitely better written). Anyone reading the bible today, free from the imposed influence of others, would regard it as pure fantasy and nothing more.
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  9

  When leaving was due to "Sin" and not Apostasy

  by Cat2016 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 18 years since i decided to leave and fade away, and at that time i was feeling a lot of pressure that i wasn't doing enough, didn't fit in with the folks in my congregation, and was unhappy in my young jw marriage.

  needless to say i recklessly went and had an affair that left me pregnant.

  i did not know what to do, i panicked and got major anxiety.

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  OneEyedJoe

  As far as deprogramming yourself goes - education seems to be the best bet. Read sites like jwfacts.com and jwsurvey.org and you'll start to see holes in doctrine and how you were manipulated. Books by Steven Hassan and his site freedomofmind.com are also good resources that will help you understand how you were manipulated and come to terms with the guilt associated with that (the feelings of "It's so obvious, why didn't I see it before?" - turns out that lots of smart people get trapped in cults and the deck was stacked against you). Learning how you were manipulated the first time around also has the effect of helping you to avoid letting it happen again in the future - without that, many who leave high-control groups or cults find themselves falling into another cult.

  If videos are more your thing, the ones by TheraminTrees on youtube are great as well. A favorite of mine, and a good primer on how you were manipulated, is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

  Congrats on starting your journey out of the indoctrination of your youth! It can be a long one and there can be challenges, but it's well worth it! I wish you the best of luck going forward.
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  9

  Oh, no. Not the election.........

  by punkofnice in

  1. social
  2. current

  just to set the scene; i loathe politicians.

  i am revulsed by people like trump, clinton, merkel, may and uncle tom cobleigh an' all.. however, i have a question about something that someone said.

  i've googled it but couldn't locate.. now, i know you folks will give me a specific answer.....and sorry to bring up that usa election.

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  OneEyedJoe

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

  The popular vote of each state decides who gets that state's electoral college votes. In most cases the electors in the electoral college are bound to vote for the candidate chosen by the popular vote of the state (in a couple states this is not the case, but I don't think they've gone rouge in modern history, if ever). This is why it is technically possible for a candidate to lose the national popular vote but win the election - If they have small victories in just enough states to win enough electoral votes and then landslide losses in other states. That is an unusual occurrence, though.

  Each state's electoral votes is equivalent to the number of representatives that the state has in congress. Since each state has two senators, regardless of population, and a number of representatives in proportion to their population this scheme gives less populated states a disproportionate sway on the election. Though, because of the much larger size of the population-based votes, the effect is relatively small.

  In short, it's a weird system that has some rather unexpected consequences (kinda locks us in to a 2-party system) and doesn't really make sense in the modern era where technology has shrunk the world so much. While it's not strictly democratic, the result usually approximates the results of a democratic election.
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  14

  Newly out, am I shunning them before they shun me?

  by schnell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have indeed made the truth my own, and i am never going back to jehovah's witnesses.

  the fact now is that talking about this religion with someone who believes it makes me sort of angry.

  it raises my blood pressure.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I think this is pretty common - several times on this forum I've read people talking about all the effort they put in to fade only to eventually end up avoiding all contact with their former friends anyway because you find that you really have so little in common with them anymore. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it...and I suspect in most cases it's nothing like the shunning JWs do - if a former friend called you up and needed help you'd probably still be there for them and not lecture them on religious nonsense and tell them its their fault you haven't been around, etc, etc.

  The alternative to "reverse shunning" as some have called it is to set healthy boundaries in your relationships. The cult trained us not to have any boundaries - everyone was constantly in everyone else's business. In the cult you can't have boundaries because you have to constantly be evaluating whether someone is good association or whether you have to report them to the elders to "help" them. We were also trained to give up personal information at the drop of a hat - nothing was private. If you want to have a relationship with people that are still in the cult, you'll have to learn how to set boundaries for yourself and stick to them.

  You can do this a couple ways - the most subtle way is simply compartmentalize your life and not talk about things that they're likely to lecture you about, and then change the subject any time they start going in to cult talk. You can vary how obvious you make the subject change if they don't pick up on it at first...it will usually make the other person a little uncomfortable to have an abrupt change of subject that you stick to, and that's something that people will often learn to avoid and they'll avoid the subjects that you're avoiding. Stick to your guns (it'll be more difficult at first than you might think) and this can work.

  If the more subtle approach doesn't work you can always face it head on - "I love you and I value our relationship, but I'd really prefer if we didn't discuss X." You don't have to tell them why you don't want to talk about it. Again, stick to your guns and if they force the issue terminate the conversation. It's not the same at all to the cult shunning - they don't shun those who only constantly try to get them to read "apostate" stuff, they shun any apostate regardless of whether they're actively flaunting that they're apostate.

  It will take time and patience and commitment. People fall into their roles by habit and if you want to change the role someone's playing you'll often get push back as they try to get you to go back to the role you used to play. Often this push back will be strongest right before they finally break and give in to the realization that you're not going to get pulled back into your old ways and they'll have to adjust. It'll be hard for you to not fall into your habitual role too, though, so you'll have to stick with it consciously. This is something that might be worth working with a therapist/counselor on, as they can be very helpful in providing an objective viewpoint.

  In the end it may not work with everyone, and you may lose some relationships. But you gave it a fair chance and you're only losing the people who are too stubborn and don't value you enough to adjust to you setting healthy boundaries and telling them what you need out of the relationship. When that's the case, then all you'd ever have is a one-sided relationship anyway, and those aren't worth anything to you.
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  23

  Another Subliminal Image? On the JW Website

  by The Searcher in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this image appears on the current main web page - as you scroll the "witnessing" photos.. weird "facial" image at the guy's right shoulder.. .

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  OneEyedJoe

  Pareidolia, as FTS said.

  The reason posts like this disappoint me so much is because it shows that people have such a difficult time moving on from what caused them to be trapped in the cult in the first place. Humans are great at pattern recognition and imbuing meaning to things. Even when a true pattern or meaning is absent, we see it. We saw a pattern of answered prayers, correct predictions, and loving behavior in a cult where no such pattern exists just because we'd been primed to see it. You'd think people who'd been fooled by a cult (and who'd fooled themselves into believing it) but eventually woke up would be better at asking "How might I be fooling myself here?" before posting things like this.

  Plus it just makes apostates look like loony conspiracy theorists and that helps no one.
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  22

  So.....Blended VS Single Malt

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondering.

  for you scotch lovers, i've been partial to singles for a long time, but was recently given a bottle of johnnie walker green.

  i think i've fallen in love.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Drink whatever tastes good to you. That's really all there is to it. The snobbery means bugger all.

  I typically prefer single malts just because they're a little more interesting to me - you can taste the particulars of what went into it more clearly vs having a blend that's targeting a specific taste profile.
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  4

  Something to laugh about

  by HappyGal in

  1. social
  2. humour

  when you've been in a cult and then get out what should you do?.

  laugh about it!

  find the funny.. that's what the ex-jw in this you tube video did.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r60wd-k0nc.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I enjoyed that, thanks. One of the things she said stood out - that by making fun of the cult she was able to help a DFed person see it for what it is. As serious a topic it is, and in spite of all the damage it's done to countless lives, it's a good thing not only to expose it in a serious manner but also to laugh about it and mock it, because comedy and humor can allow people to explore concepts that would otherwise trigger their defenses. Satire is a powerful thing.