darkspilver
JoinedPosts by darkspilver
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18
Tell me if I'm right or wrong
by Chook injws say they can go anywhere in the world and they " know" that they would be shown hospitality from their fellow brothers.
of all my years as a jw i found this wasn't the case.
i honestly believe that if i turned up at any of my fellow apostates on here house and said hi i'm chook can we have a coffee, the response would be how many sugars..
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17
Puerto Rico Special Convention 2016 Video
by darkspilver innever a jw.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6289070416199680/dressed-up-five-days-ahead-special-assembly-puerto-rico.
an hour ago i went to bid good bye my two brothers in law and their wives (all elders/elderettes).
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darkspilver
never a jw
An hour ago I went to bid good bye my two brothers in law and their wives (all elders/elderettes). They were invited to the special assembly in Puerto Rico this coming weekend.
Here's a video - don't believe it's been posted here yet - it's 80 minutes long and focuses on the entertainment and hospitality
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
Hi joe134cd!
The law also requires military service in times of war. Are we just following a formality because Ceasars
yeah, it's a very slippery slope.....
Interesting that Chile isn't like a 'small' country for JWs
It has 75,000 publishers, a ratio of 1-in-236 - I really do wonder what the rank and file think about it.
It would be fascinating what the JWs would do if a country like France introduced a similiar law - and let's face, that could happen.....
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
Hi ILoveTTATT2!If the law requires you to put a flag... that's ok. If the law requires you to hold a flag... that's not ok.
They would say that merely placing the flag on a building is not a ceremony.
Many public buildings have national flags on them, raised and lowered by a caretaker with no ceremony.
The problem is if it is some kind ceremony - holding or placing a flag so others can salute it is being part of a ceremony.
Does anyone walk by the flag on the KHs and salute it? Any uniformed soldiers for example?
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
Hey joe134cd!
If anyone thinks that hanging it isn't worshiping it, then my suggestion would be go hang a flag ( and by extention of that a Christmas tree) out side your house and see what sort of reaction you get from the local JWS.
No, the issue is what is caesar's law?
The vast majority of countries do not have a law that requires non-governmental public buildings (or, indeed private houses) to display the flag:
- In Austria in 1938 there was a law requiring the display of the flag
- In Chile there is a law requiring the displaying of the flag on non-governmental public buildings on one-day-a-year.
- There is NO law requiring the display of the flag on your house in your country.
That's the difference.
Don't get me wrong - I do think it is an issue - but you gotta make sure it is the right issue - actually I'm kinda surprised they don't get the CO's to strongly lean on congregations at least 'off-the-record.'
It may be the law that your private car number plate needs to display the flag of the country you are from - that is OK
If I put a flag sticker on my car - not required by law - that would not be allowable for JWs
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
Hey John Free!
Watchtower is breaking its own rules on this matter in order to save money. In their own literature flags are referred to as 'objects of veneration'. Objects of veneration are idols. Also in their own literature it isn't simply the veneration of idols that is condemned but the very possession of an idol that is condemned.
When driving your car in another country you normally need to display some kind of national identification mark on the rear.
Also see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_European_Union
Also don't ships, boats and yachts etc need to display an ensign at certain times?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensign
Watchtower 15 January 1977, page 63, paragraph 4
Questions From Readers: May a Christian raise or lower a flag at his place of work?
Often the national flag is displayed at public buildings and assembly places, such as firehouses, municipal offices and schools. In view of their respect for the government and what is used to represent it, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no objection to being in or working at buildings where the national flag is on display. Similarly, a flag might appear on postage stamps, automobile plates or other government-produced items. Yet that does not mean that a person of the public who uses such is necessarily participating in devotional acts toward the flag. What is significant is not the presence of a flag but how a person acts toward it, what he does.
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
OK, found what I was after regarding playing National Anthems - it's in the confidential Correspondence Guildlines which they use if you write into Bethel
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6122134262775808/branch-correspondence-guidelines
School and Jehovah's Witnesses (1983), page 29, paragraph 2
Class Instruction - Music and Art Instruction
Even during practice sessions, Witness students would not share in playing national anthems or songs connected with religious or national holidays.
Branch Correspondence Guildlines, page 57, paragraph 4
Flag Salute and Anthems
If a person in a band or an orchestra participated in playing a national anthem in a patriotic ceremony, he would thus be expressing total agreement and making an essential contribution to the patriotic act. A Christian could not do this and remain in good standing in the congregation. In contrast, if music instruction in school required a student to show that he could play a certain anthem, not as part of a ceremony, but merely as a demonstration of musical skill to the instructor, this would be a matter for personal decision.
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
Hey pale.emperor!
Hang on, hang on... so that brother in the convention video who refused to play the Soviet national anthem on his violin COULD have all along? And he went to prison for not doing it?
I suppose, if it wasn't part of a nationalistic ceremony, then yes - it was his personal conscience decision, but...
But, he might also have also reasoned that when he played it, the uniformed officiers present would have saluted and that - in the brothers eyes - would have made it into a nationalistic ceremony which the brother wanted no part of.
Also, notice how he didn't say, "I don't know how to play it" (and a badly played national anthem might be viewed as being disrespectful in itself) - he might have had to learn to to play it - technically as it were - for a music exam.
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43
Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016
by ILoveTTATT2 inmy friends,.
what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.
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darkspilver
TBH I think the comparision with Malawi, somewhat muddies the water. Best to keep it as siple as possible
I believe the clearest comparision, was what I highlighted two years ago regarding the situation in Austria in April 1938
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/284857/chile-flag-true-undeniable-evidence?page=9#/5100458
I understand that for both Chile and Austria, it is /was "caesar's law" that a flag was to be displayed (with evidently no other acts of devotion required?)
Of course WT precedes the Austrian example in the year book with a very loaded comment - but surely that is also the intent in Chile - after all it is 'National Day'.
I believe the 'fine' for not displaying that flag in Chile is affordable to pay, and I would be perfectly happy with congregation donations/funds being using to pay it - if indeed they do get fined as it seems it's a bit ad hoc.
Sister Altenbuchner in Austria decided not to display a flag - "for reasons of conscience."
I suspect JWs reading that would agree, and say, of course we wouldn't display the flag, but...
But, the year book makes no play regarding scriptural principles etc etc in the experience - purely that she decided the way she did because of her own personal "reasons of conscience."
Others may have decided it was "caesar's law" and therefore compiled with the law - much like some congregations in Chile?
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79
Plans for huge Jehovah's HQ take shape
by Formerbrother inhttp://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/11227290.plans_for_huge_jehovah_s_hq_take_shape/.
its going to be a real beautiful place when its finished.. they are going for quality over quantity.
it used to be accommodation for a few thousand permanent residents, now its looking like less than a thousand permanent with the possibility of a few thousand more in temporary accommodation should the need arise.. some say the plans are going to be like a garden of eden in england :) i mean they had farming in london over the years but this is going to be epic what they are planning for temple farm at chelmsford.. they are planting thousands (literally) of fruit trees, including tropical fruits in huge green houses, huge vines yards and then the same basic farming activities as before.
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darkspilver
HI Formerbrother!
There is going to be another big meeting in Bows Road Assembly hall to try to drum up volunteers.
Yes, we know - all the dates, venues and the programme were posted here a month ago
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5703626102145024/britain-branch-relocation-project-7-boes
Oh, and by saying 'another big meeting', you are implying there has already been a big meeting at Bowes Road regarding the project - when did that take place????
Perhaps more interestingly there is gonna be a 5 minute video presentation regarding the project at ALL KHs in Britain during the 'Local Needs' of the CLAM week starting 3 October 2016.
