Posts by ellderwho

59

NON-THEISTIC belief systems REQUIRE LOTS of FAITH (e.g. people from FISH)

by hooberus in

i once saw dawkins refer to his views as a "belief system".

indeed, persons who subscribe to a non-theistic belief system* have been generally forced to hold to the following beliefs:.

that life came from non-life.. that people came from fish (fish are in mans actual ancestry in evolutionary phylogenetic trees).

ellderwho

Farkel:
Ba,
: Atheists have faith, too.
Incorrect. Atheists are distinguished by their LACK of faith.

Lack of faith??? Oh I see, evolution musta happend, so it did happend. Please.

208

this thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but i thought it would make an interesting discussion.. self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it".

my premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.. so, i would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.. 1) in what way is faith not self-deception?.

2) is a person who has faith in a god that you do not believe in, say for example siva, practicing a form of self-deception?.

ellderwho

Hillary,

We convince ourselves of what we need, at the time we need it.
What I would also suggest is that our knowledge of "god" is no more advanced that it ever has been. We may believes in the concept of a universal god, but we dress he/she/it in the clothes of our own self-deception. I cannot see how a subjective view of what will very probably always be an unknown can carry any weight at all as it is dependent not on fact but fantasy, and that all that can be relied on for a certainty is the measurable and falsifiable at any one time in human development

Btw great thread. In trying to wrap my mind around the idea of "self deceiving" I have to consider, truth. Do I have it? If I dont, Ive been deceived or lied to. If I have truth and knowingly surpress it, then I live a lie. And have become very good at concealing truth.

What then is the final reference point of truth?

The problem is, can I contradict myself and actually practice whole heartedly the act of "self deception"? If I genuinely believe in God, at what point does the deception kick in?

I think self deception is a easy term to throw around but difficult to explain.

"who has deceived thee so often as thyself"... Benjamin Franklin

43

Vasectomy Horror Stories- Have Any? Or Normal Vasectomy Stories ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

well, i know you all pretty well now after 9 months of being on board , so i feel o.k.

to approach this subject.

this subject is a pretty touchy one for most of us men, especially those of us that have been put under the " knife" , and got to the point where we did not want any more children.

ellderwho

I had it done about 9 years ago, at the same time I had a hernia repair. No problems whatsoever. Its the only way to go. edited to add: flipper Im confused about your female sign on your avatar. Or am I missing something?

119

Can God's love be demanded?

by Deputy Dog in

can god's love be demanded?

if so where would grace come in to play?.

can your love be demanded?.

ellderwho

Sad E. The sovereign issue is where I come from in my argument as far as Pharaoh is concerned. Really, as far as everyone is concerned. Gods total sovereignty takes the guess out of everything.

I attribute everything that happens to Gods total sovereignty. Are we going to catch God by surprise by the choices we make. Or is it as the Jws believe; that Jehovah chooses not to know the outcome of history. I feel the latter would leave us with a very small God.

Question, did God know forehand of the choices Lucifer would make?

119

Can God's love be demanded?

by Deputy Dog in

can god's love be demanded?

if so where would grace come in to play?.

can your love be demanded?.

ellderwho

Sad E: Just because someone (like pharaoh or Esau) gets a crappy deal in life, does it necessarily mean that God loves them any less?

If Yahweh brought Pharoah up to do his will, what choice is he (Pharoah) left with in regards to the ability to love God and establish a relationship with his maker.

DDog said it best:

Who determines the future? God or man?

119

Can God's love be demanded?

by Deputy Dog in

can god's love be demanded?

if so where would grace come in to play?.

can your love be demanded?.

ellderwho

Sad E : So why should God love one more than the other? I don't think He did - He just showed preference , for reasons unknown to me.

Would that be the case with Pharoah?

Rom 9:17

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up,'

DDog: Where was God's love for Esau?

Agreed, where was the love for Pharoah?

39

Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 in

so after the revelation study last night where the paragraph was talking about how russell's interpertation of revelation basically didn't work and got discarded, my wife comments with the same old,"the light gets brigther, that's why i respect fds because at least they will change when they figure out something is wrong.

" (insert vomit here) afterwards, me and the book study conductor(i have to at least give him credit, he is someone i can talk to freely about my questions and he has not,as of yet, turned me in) got into a discussion of what 'the light gets brighter' really means.

he basically says so the brothers have made changes, so what?

ellderwho

This argument cracks me up. Okay lets see, 2+2 has always equaled 4 whether its 1874, 1925, 1943 and so on.

The inescapable truth is that truth is truth no matter the year. Unless of course Jehovah decieved the Slave while giving instructions to the church Christ had inspected.

Read the rest of Prov. 4

EW.

32

Mouthy, Deputy Dog, Apostate Kate, and Investigator74

by AuldSoul in

i met these folks over the weekend, and i am glad i did.

grace got a couple of pictures of herself flanked by myself and the towering deputy dog.. i missed hearing apostate kate speak on sunday because i was only able to steal away for a few hours on saturday.. .

i hope trevor keeps his word and pays her back, but i will be surprised if he does.

ellderwho

I usually attend with Deputy Dog. My jw parents were in town and leaving that weekend. I missed Mouthy and Doc bob, Sunspot, Junction guy. I really miss people gathering together and hearing teatimonies of life after Tower. And of course Joan what a strong Christian women with a great calling. The healing that goes on there is really special.

Sorry I missed everyone, It wont happen again

EW

14

Pyramid prediction of 1914 and Daniel's Dream

by Erace in

i'm new here and i've been researching the 1914 prediction by russell using the measurements from the great pyramid.

i was born as a jehovah witness and after 20 years, i never heard about a pyramid measurement.

i never missed a meeting either!

ellderwho

I wonder if I can go back to Washington and let them know that I am ready to take that baseball scholarship my parents told me I couldn't take

Go play ball son! The witnesses are dead in the water.

Welcome the the forum.

21

Official protocol for DF family member

by ellderwho in

while talking with mom(active dub) this morning, i said " aren't you glad i was never baptised so you can still talk and have a mother son relationship'?

her response shocked me in that she said it wouldn't matter your still my son.

and she would be able to talk with me, just cannot discuss the jw religion.. i was always under the impression you would be shunned for the rest of your life, unless you went through the chain of command for reinstatement.

ellderwho

Thanks for all the replies, Mom sent me an email that totally missed the whole point I was trying to make. Which is par for the course. It really comes down to the rules, an she'll just maniputlate the ones she needs to paint the Org in the rightful light.

And pretend there lovingly in place for ones on good

EW