Self Deceit and Faith.

by hillary_step 208 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  This thread is inspired by a comment made on another thread, but I thought it would make an interesting discussion.

  Self deceit is described as a "misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it". My premise is that faith is a form of self-deceit - lying to oneself.

  So, I would ask of the "faithful" the following questions and would request that they be read carefully to ensure no that there is no misunderstanding of purpose.

  1) In what way is faith not self-deception?

  2) Is a person who has faith in a God that you do not believe in, say for example Siva, practicing a form of self-deception?

  Many thanks - HS
• 

  Big Tex

  Thanks for starting this HS. I will be very interested in reading responses.

  Be well,

  Chris
• 

  Brother Apostate

  1) In what way is faith not self-deception?

  2) Is a person who has faith in a God that you do not believe in, say for example Siva, practicing a form of self-deception?

  I believe I can answer both of those with one answer. But first, a question: Is it self-delusion to come to a conclusion that is based on observed evidence, no matter how popular or unpopular that conclusion may be? Some insist on defining faith as "belief without proof", if that is the case, then we all have faith, depending on how you define "proof".

  American Heritage Dictionary:

  1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

  If one defines proof as such, then we all have faith.

  Faith is defined in the Bible as "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the proving of things not seen."- Hebrews 11:1

  I believe that faith is based on the things seen, things learned, things reasoned upon. That faith in the unseen is not blind. While God is not seen, we believers have faith that He exists, because we observe His creation’s complexity and design, that is proof . Non-believers and believers also come to conclusions about the unseen.

  Because none of us knows for a certainty, but rather believes that (to varying degrees) our conclusions are correct, it can be stated that we all have varying degrees of faith. It is the object of that faith that differentiates the "believer" from the "non-believer". Do we ultimately put our faith in men, or God?

  Are we all "practicing self-deception", then?

  Time will tell who are deceiving themselves and who are not, as the facts are proven or disproved.

  BA
• 

  serotonin_wraith

  BA,

  While God is not seen, we believers have faith that He exists, because we observe His creation’s complexity and design, that is proof .

  Do you have any other reason to believe in God apart from not accepting the proven fact of evolution which explains the complexity and 'design' you see?
• 

  Brother Apostate

  Do you have any other reason to believe in God apart from not accepting the proven fact of evolution which explains the complexity and 'design' you see?

  Lol, "proven "fact", lol. You may accept it as such, but then there's the rest of us who don't. It's not an indisputable fact. It's a theory.

  BA
• 

  nvrgnbk

  : Is it self-delusion to come to a conclusion that is based on observed evidence, no matter how popular or unpopular that conclusion may be?

  Please present said evidence.

  Please keep in mind that many that do not have faith in the existence of God would very much like to.

  Most Christians I've spoken with end up supporting their faith with a personal experience that they've interpreted as some sort of message from God or otherwise divine intervention.

  Time will tell who are deceiving themselves and who are not, as the facts are proven or disproved.

  Really?

  Blasphemy is used in the Judeo-Christian Bible to mock false, impotent, non-existent deities.

  The lack of response from said deities was pointed to as proof of their non-existence.

  If the tables are turned and the Judeo-Christian deity is similarly "called out", is that offensive?

  Why not let him have his say?

  One thing that's interesting about the biblical challenges of pagan deities is that no provision or allowance was made for them to prove their godship at some moment decades, centuries, or millenia in the future. If they were silent in the face of the challenge, this was pointed to as evidence of their inferiority, impotence, not being real, etc.
• 

  R.Crusoe

  It has been shown that animals have a hard time of deprogramming themslves from zoo life to that of their natural environment. Humans are no different in this regard. Effectively there are thousands of zoos of thought and culture all around the world. Some folks feel at home therein and so fairdo's. But if you do not then likely you will feel the need to question what you have previously taken as gospel. Trouble is others who think mainstream may give you more hassle for doing so! In order to learn what you want to learn, insofar as it's in your power so to do, you will need to attempt to tackle all major beliefs that you hold as if you didn't previously believe them and consider the evidence, but especially the alternative ideologies that are in others of your speceis. You will then be more able to make an informed choice for yourself that is more like what it claims to be - an informed choice! Meantime you will stress over certain uncertainties - for that is the territory of your choosing - to go your own way and not follow a pied piper!
• 

  serotonin_wraith

  It's not an indisputable fact. It's a theory.

  Would you change your mind if I were to present indisputable facts, or would your faith keep you ignorant?
• 

  sir82

  It's not an indisputable fact. It's a theory.

  The same can be said for gravity.

  When is the last time you took a swan dive off the top of a building?
• 

  Brother Apostate

  Please present said evidence.

  No. You research it yourself. It's called "creationism", one of it's variants is "intelligent design". You can google it. I'm not re-inventing the wheel.

  Please keep in mind that many that do not have faith in the existence of God would very much like to.

  God will raise His two witnesses in due time, to perform miracles. Not unlike previous miracles, however, they will be forgotten and disputed by many.

  Most Christians I've spoken with end up supporting there faith with a personal experience that they've interpreted as some sort of message from God or otherwise divine intervention.

  Not this Christian.

  BA- And yes, as I stated, time will tell.