Thoughts on forgivness...Is there a process? (page 3)

lonelysheep

My thoughts on forgiveness have changed over the last few years.

I don't see it as anything having to do w/God since I'm athiest.

I can't say that I've forgiven certain people, but rather accepted the kind of people they are. This has allowed me to let go of grudges and move on in my own life. Doesn't mean I keep them in my life, but that I am at peace with myself and realize people make their own choices on how to behave.

I don't find it possible for me to forgive someone who isn't sorry.

onacruse

LT:

What have you been hoping and expecting out of the various situations? Is that really what forgiving is about?

That also is a very good question.

As best I can answer, all I've expected from other people, whether they've sinned against me, or against God, is just plain and simple honesty. Not some trumped-up display, not some shuck-and-jive, not some manipulation of the system: just a straight demonstration that they're trying their best to be honest...a "rule" of life that I've tried to apply to myself, with variable success.

The WTS never gave me that: it was a one-way street with them--they may, at their discretion, have chosen to forgive me (which they didn't). I, otoh, was expected (nay, read demanded) to forgive them!

As further chapters in my life-story will demonstrate, I also never got that honesty from my "friends."

And, if I may be so bold as to say: the Bible preaches forgiveness, but it doesn't show a practice of it. If anything, the Christian heritage shows as much, if not more, unforgivingness than every other religion on this planet.

Again, respectfully,

Craig

LittleToe

Craig:

...a "rule" of life that I've tried to apply to myself, with variable success.

So you've hoped to find a consistency in others that you've been unable to find in yourself?

And, if I may be so bold as to say: the Bible preaches forgiveness, but it doesn't show a practice of it. If anything, the Christian heritage shows as much, if not more, unforgivingness than every other religion on this planet.

We could go several rounds on this one, as I would suggest that it transcends religious boundaries. It seems to me that the only castigation that Jesus is purported to have handed out is against hypocrites. Do you see any commonality between his reaction and yours?

"Lord, spare me from your followers..."

onacruse

Well Ross, I guess we'll just have to go for a round or two, eh?

So you've hoped to find a consistency in others that you've been unable to find in yourself?

I'll be the very first to admit that I've been a hypocrite, for a considerable part of my life: if not in thought, then at least by action, or, at the very least, by inaction--in any case, distinctions without a distinction.

So, in response to your:

It seems to me that the only castigation that Jesus is purported to have handed out is against hypocrites.

Would you be open to discussing the possibility that Jesus was himself a hypocrite?

I think you know where I can go with this.

And, my apology for taking this thread off-topic...but, what the hey?

LittleToe

FWIW I don't think this is off-topic - it's a casestudy in learning to forgive - starting with one's self.

There were no accusations to be found in any of my sentences. You might want to investigate why YOU think you're a hypocrite, but that certainly wasn't my assertion.

But by all means, let's go down the bunny-hole...

onacruse

LT:

it's a casestudy in learning to forgive - starting with one's self.

Now there's another interesting observation. My Mom keeps telling me that I have a self-hate thing going on. Maybe I do.

Just how would you suggest that I get past that?

There were no accusations to be found in any of my sentences. You might want to investigate why YOU think you're a hypocrite, but that certainly wasn't my assertion.

My self-admission about hypocrisy is just that: how I must characterize myself, for whatever reason...and I do think there are a fair number of reasons that I could be so characterized.

After all, what is hypocrisy? The basic meaning is to "put on a mask" and pretend (or behave) to be something that you aren't...like an actor on a stage.

Did I do that? Yes.

Did Jesus do that? Yes.

Do you do that? I think you do; it's just a matter of human nature?

Again, I mean absolutely no offense to you in this.

Respectfully,

Craig

Robdar

onacruise- strange. I always preached forgivness, and it was not until I really was humbled and saw how wrong I was on so much, that I really understood what being or giving forgivness was. I too went thru that phase in my life where I was going to be damned if I would forgive anyone. But just like that...poof, a lot of anger and hurt disapeared when I saw how much I REALLY needed it.

Sparkplug, I have found this to be true too. Especially with people from my past--former brothers and sisters in the cong. Once I admitted to myself that I wasn't perfect either--and needed forgiveness, I found it much easier to forgive others.

Good topic.

Robyn

prophecor

Jesus outlined the steps to settle differences and stated "if your brother repents you must forgive him". There lies the key,you cannot grant blanket amnesty (indulgence) to a willful unrepentant perpetrator as they are gonna stab you in the back again first chance they get, and revile you as a dumb ass for letting yourself be suckered. Because psychopaths and sociopaths are wicked,amoral and cannot change.

I wasn't sure as to why I was such a self indulgent unforgiving asshole, but after reading the way this was worded, I now feel better about my not allowing any forgiveness to take place in a situation of mines which continues to harbor the same bitterness and resentnent that existed over four years ago. It was of the magnitude that I may never forgive this person as I know this individual is a liar, a manipulator, and uses people and situations to bend to her favor, by whatever means necessary. Forgiveness in some situations require absolute evidence that the one who has wronged is truly sorry and acknowledges that what they did was wrong.

In my case it was a trumped up allegation as to my having molested her child. It was brought to the attention of the police, and it was something that was said to them because she hated me, her stepfather and used my calling the police on her against me.

I will never forgive this person, at least as far as I can see it. It's something that I feel will go unforgiven to my grave and yes in the words of Don Henley, the anger that I'm carrying is eating me up inside, lo after these four years, yet I am still unwilling to let such a reprehensible accusation go unpardoned without this person at the very least, acknowledging that such allegations were lies, and that what they did was wrong.

prophecor

Here is a link to a thread that was started along theses same lines over the same above mentioned situation, although without much of the sordid above details.

Forgiveness, How Far Do You Take It?

Thoughts on forgivness...Is there a process?

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