Thoughts on forgivness...Is there a process?

Sparkplug

Me personally I think that one must first realize where they have hurt other people and ask them for forgivness. Though this they actually have learned why it is they need it (forgivness). Then they can feel free for to God to help them forgive other people. Am I backwards on this?

I work with people and ex husbands who profess to love God, and all the while when they are angry they ask for God's help to forgive people. Meanwhile there are so many people they have hurt laying at their feet so to speak...

It just makes me think of that scripture that says bring your gifts, and leave them so that first you may go make peace with your brother, then your gifts are acceptable to give.

I sometimes feel they do this calling out for help as a show. Just a big manipulative show.

Edited...because I cannot type worth a dang.

onacruse

Interesting question.

From the Christian perspective, forgiveness is supposedly unilateral, right? I simply say "I forgive you" and it's a done deal...but then, actually not so unilateral, as a certain amount of remorseful acknowledgement from the sinner is to be expected before such an offer is extended. This is, after all, the way the Biblical God does it.

But what, exactly, constitutes "sufficient" evidence of such acknowledgement? Is it like when you've been disfellowshipped for at least a year, having attended every meeting (sitting in the back row, of course), faithfully staying through the closing prayer, and then appropriately slinking out the back door, as proof of your self-shame?

At this point in my life, I must admit that I have very little space in my heart for forgiveness, in the sense that I always understood it.

Once a trust has been shattered, once a promise has been broken, then there's no going back.

It's a hard row to hoe, but that's just how I feel.

Sparkplug

onacruise- strange. I always preached forgivness, and it was not until I really was humbled and saw how wrong I was on so much, that I really understood what being or giving forgivness was. I too went thru that phase in my life where I was going to be damned if I would forgive anyone. But just like that...poof, a lot of anger and hurt disapeared when I saw how much I REALLY needed it.

At any rate, I still think the people I work with use the calling for strength to forgive as a crutch. To make an outward show of Godliness, but all the while trying to call attention to the wrongs of others and not making any move to examine themselves.

Apostanator

In my opinion, asking for forgiveness without saying your sorry as well as stopping or changing the offending act, is like doing whatever you want without being accountable for it.

bebu

At any rate, I still think the people I work with use the calling for strength to forgive as a crutch.

If that's all that it is, then they are not really doing anything worth mentioning, imo. I think forgiveness is a process that takes time, of course, but it's an intentional process, not just a lip service of seeming intentional. Time usually tells, and it sounds like this phrase is becoming a handy excuse to avoid really forgiving someone.

bebu

DannyHaszard

Danny's thoughts- The straight scoop on 'forgiveness' vs the subterfuge of indulgence . What is justifiable anger? What is indulgence? What is forgiveness? A much quoted phrase from Jesus sermon on the mount at Matthew the 5th chapter :"turn the other cheek,there's a better world waiting for the meek".."love your enemies". Jesus also stated in that same sermon,"do not give what is holy to dog's,neither cast your pearls before swine,lest they turn about and rip you open". Another example of Jesus that the,be indulgent no matter what apologist will use is the case of Jesus forgiving those who nailed him to the cross.He said; "Father,forgive them for they no not what they are doing". Jesus here is talking about the ignorant Roman soldiers who were just carrying out official orders and didn't know what they were doing". Know this!This same Jesus went on to eternally damn Judas his apostle.He said "it would have been a finer thing if Judas had not even been born" and condemned him as the "son of destruction" What about the grievance protocol for reconciling differences at Matthew 18:15? Jesus outlined the steps to settle differences and stated "if your brother repents you must forgive him". There lies the key,you cannot grant blanket amnesty (indulgence) to a willful unrepentant perpetrator as they are gonna stab you in the back again first chance they get, and revile you as a dumb ass for letting yourself be suckered. Because psychopaths and sociopaths are wicked,amoral and cannot change. Warning Against Adultery Proverbs 6 27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap
without his clothes being burned?

28 Can a man walk on hot coals
without his feet being scorched?

29 So is he who sleeps with another man's wife;
no one who touches her will go unpunished.

30 Men do not despise a thief if he steals
to satisfy his hunger when he is starving.

31 Yet if he is caught, he must pay sevenfold,
though it costs him all the wealth of his house.

32 But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment;
whoever does so destroys himself.

33 Blows and disgrace are his lot,
and his shame will never be wiped away;

34 for jealousy arouses a husband's fury, and he will show no mercy when he takes revenge.

35 He will not accept any compensation;
he will refuse the bribe, however great it is.

There you have it God's word say's your gonna fry just for sleeping with someone's mate (adultery)

Now,my righteous vendetta against the psychopath watchtower cult is for soul rape of my ENTIRE FAMILY!

Further reading The Watchtower is run by psychopaths

ithinkisee

I never understood this song as a teenager in high school .... now it bears a lot more weight

"Heart Of The Matter" Don Henley

Ah...these times are so uncertain
There's a yearning undefined
and people filled with rage
We all need a little tenderness
How can love survive in such a graceless age?

Ah...the trust and self-assurance that lead to happiness
They're the very things - we kill I guess...
Ohh pride and competition
cannot fill these empty arms
And the work I put between us
you know it doesn't keep me warm

I'm learning to live without you now
But I miss you, baby
And the more I know, the less I understand
All the things I thought I'd figured out
I have to learn again

I've been trying to get down
to the heart of the matter
But everything changes
and my friends seem to scatter

But I think it's about...forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if, you don't love me anymore

There are people in your life who've come and gone
They let you down, you know they hurt your pride
You better put it all behind you baby; cause' life goes on
If you keep carryin' that anger, it'll eat you up inside, baby

I've been trying to get down
to the heart of the matter
But my will gets weak
and my thoughts seem to scatter

But I think it's about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me

I've been tryin' to get down
to the heart of the matter
Because the flesh will get weak
and the ashes will scatter

So I'm thinkin' about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if, you don't love me...
Even if, you don't love me anymore...

bikerchic

Hi sparkplug, here is a link which may help you;

http://www.forgivenessweb.com/RdgRm/How%20to%20Forgive.htm This is also a good read: http://www.consciouschoice.com/1995-98/cc115/forgiveness1105.html

Gotta love google!

DannyHaszard

Don't me get wrong Danny has a measure of peace,i keep in mind that wicked people don't live forever they grow old and die. title

blondie

When I was still a JW, I read this book to deal with all the abuse (and continuing abuse) from my family and so-called Christian JWs.

After I left, I re-read it and found it helpful again to deal with my new perspective.

You can go into this URL and look at the table of contents and an excerpt.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446392596/104-8372409-2427939?v=glance

Blondie

Thoughts on forgivness...Is there a process?

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