defd, three sincere questions

by OldSoul 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Big Dog
    Big Dog

    Derrick is no different than many people that subscribe to any religion (as most here feel that all religions are a load of crap), most know if they are honest their faith has issues, questions that can't be answered well, etc. but they get what they need out of it and are happy. Nothing wrong with that I say, unless it is causing them some personal pain or causing them to hurt someone else.

    I had go arounds with my wife when we first met as she was/is Catholic, and though I left the borg I by training I thought the Catholic church was just the worst. So I would get into discussions with her attacking some of the Catholic beliefs as I was taught growing up in the hall until one day she told me in no uncertain terms that she was happy with being a Catholic, she realized the church had problems but she was okay with them and would appreciate if I would shut the hell up unless I had something better to offer her, which some would say being agnostic or atheist is "better" but I really don't so I shut the hell up.

    I think its great to discuss beliefs and doctrine, but at the end of the day if it makes sense to you then go with it.

  • gringojj

    I have been anxiously waiting for defd to answer these questions.

  • OldSoul


    Before we begin let me say that my shift at work is almost up so I wont be able to get into it to much but can pick it back up 2marrow, honestly.

    I see you've made lot's of posts this morning. I want to trust you, honestly. Do you have an answer for me? Do you have Scriptures?


  • vitty

    Old soul,

    I dont think your going to get your answers !!!!!!!!

  • defd

    vitty old soul is NOT looking for answers.

  • OldSoul

    I think defd has determined that anyone who used to agree with the Slave but now disagrees with the Slave does not deserve answers. Oddly, my request relates specifically to whether that Slave has any authority in the first place.

    I suspect that if defd has been able to warn away 20 lurkers in his time here, he wil consider himself a success. I think you are right, Vitty.

    [defd in soup Nazi voice] No answers for you!


  • OldSoul


    Are you a mind reader? If not, then on what basis do you challenge whether I want answers?

    There is no Scriptural proof that I can find, and I have earnestly looked very hard. Can you find any? If so, show it. But you are NOT welcome to dispute my honesty in asking. EVER. But, let's imagine for the moment a world where I am a liar: Does my having raised this point and your refusal to show Scriptures mean that no one else reading here will have anything to go on but what I have posted? Unfortunately, that is the state of affairs left here is you don't show Scriptures. Unproven teachings are like seeds that sprout later, if sown on fine soil.


  • trevor

    Question 1: Do you believe that to be a certain mark of the true religion? Question 2: Do you believe that absence of Scriptural basis for teachings is a mark of false religion? Question 3: Do you personally know, or can you find, the Scriptural basis for the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses?

    Old Soul to put you out of your misery - the answer to all three questions is - Yes!

    If you are a Jehovah’s Witnesses. Otherwise the answer is - No!

    What is of more interest is how YOU would answer these questions.

    Perhaps this is what troubles you?


  • OldSoul

    Recap time:

    defd: I will answer to the best of my ability but I WILL NOT go back and forth and argue.

    Fair enough. Here are four of the teachings I cannot find support for in the Scripture. If someone publicly denies the validity of any one of these foundational doctrines or publicly affirms a contrary belief to any one of these, they risk expulsion from among Jehovah's Witnesses. I have source material readily available to show you, in case you question whether any of these are actually JW dogma.

    (1) the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a class of people,

    (2) that the holy spirit directs organizations, in addition to individuals,

    (3) that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is responsible for revealing "new light" (as opposed to "food at the proper time") to anyone, and finally

    (4) that Jehovah deals with individual other sheep differently than the little flock.

    Can you establish these doctrines Scripturally without uninspired human interpretation?

    The only thing saving me from expulsion so far is that I have not publicly denied the validity or publicly affirmed a belief to the contrary. But, in light of the point in What Does the Bible Really Teach? I don't feel bad about asying that if there is no support for these teachings in the Bible, then they are false.


    defd: Before we begin let me say that my shift at work is almost up so I wont be able to get into it to much but can pick it back up 2marrow, honestly.

    THIS MORNING (2marrow):

    I see you've made lot's of posts this morning. I want to trust you, honestly. Do you have an answer for me? Do you have Scriptures?


    defd: vitty old soul is NOT looking for answers.

    Oh, really? I think the forum already knows otherwise. I have raised these same points on numerous occasions and have never received an answer. IF there is n answer, I want it. So far, no one has supplied one.

    My earliest attempt, prior to what you call Apostasy:

    I raised them several times in discussion threads, I don't know all of them. Usually I just raised them in the form of redirecting back to the "A Friend In Need" thread.

    Next Attempt:

    And lastly, you. Here. In this thread.

    But, in your case, I even went so far as to agree to your terms. My statement that these teachings have no Scriptural support stands until shown to be untrue. The proof of untruth, in this case, can only be Scriptural support. If you show it, that will be the end of it, you made perfectly clear you don't want to argue about your proof and I accepted those terms.

    What is it, defd? What is the real problem? Did you find out there is no Scriptural proof for these doctrines of your faith? Do you find yourself forced to "save face" somehow, even if it is by maligning a poster with a long track record of honesty?

    Hm. We'll see. But I think your lack of support is showing. If you have lost my respect it is only to the degree that your promises to me are not being fulfilled. That is how the Organization lost my respect, too.


  • OldSoul


    No qualms at all in answering. Yes, yes, and no. I don't even feel the need to qualify the answers.


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