Hiya OldSoul - Ok could you do it to Moses? Or do you just mean modern day people? I'd be interested in what your arguements are.
Um, unless I am mistaken (always possible) Christ sort of tossed the priesthood and its attached authorities out the window. I don't read anything in the Greek Scriptures that indicates I should be subjecting myself to any of the models of religious authority evident in Israel.
Would you have followed the 12 apostles?
No. I would not. And they wouldn't ask me to, so fortunately I wouldn't need to. (1 Corinthians 3:5-9)
I'm missing the full import of what your saying here. I don't see any lack of structure here?
There is definately a structure in the NT.
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
I'd follow a true prophet any day.
Hey LT! Just to let you know (and to balance my arrogance) - I'd be honoured if you also wanted me to baptised by your minister. I like to think that someone else wanted me :)
There is definately a structure in the NT.
In so much as Paul could argue theology with the best of them. They were one church that happened to meet in various cities. The modern-day equivalent remains the whole body of believers united to Christ, regardless of the bunker mentalities that have pretty badges. As a point in case, from a LDS perspective, wouldn't it be true to say that there are those in and out of the LDS who will reach the highest possible heaven, and those in and out who will not? Does Christ limit himself to human structures?
I'd be honoured if you also wanted me to baptised by your minister. I like to think that someone else wanted me
Doesn't this entirely miss the point of baptism? Is it really just a "nice ritual" that you've gotta do at some point because Jesus alluded to it?
On coming to faith in Christ an individual get's baptised "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" - a simple initiation into the Christian Mystery School, identifying the individual to the "church" (i.e. body of believers, regardless of congregation or denomination).
Had my baptism in the JWs been to that simple formula I might have been content with it. As it happens all of their formulas have been corrupted and added to, and besides, their dedication is specifically to the Father with no implicit trust in the Son per se.
The water is symbolic of the inner cleasing that has already taken place, with the Holy Spirit, not merely a badge or act of superstition. Why not hedge your bets completely and get initiated as a Muslim, Hindu and Sikh?
Hey Q, you never answered the questions on my last post....but I suppose LT and Old Soul could be more interesting....
Jill- it is pretty weird. My mom and her parents converted when she was a teen. My grandfather was adopted and found his living siblings after conversion...none of the siblings were JW but many of their children were...also had other family members covert to mormonism. It's almost like some kind of genetic mishap makes people in my family prone to this thing...BUT THIS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC.
Yea - you could say a lot of the religions that sprung from that period where cultish but you know what I liked about that period. Th epeople desired to know God, they wanted to go to church and to worship, they spent alot of time caring so fervently about it that they talked, walked and fought the good fight. The UK at the moment is becoming one godless little sod of mud bar the influx of muslims. I know the born agains are doing their best but the honest truth is we are losing our religion and our desire for religion as a culture and a people (blows raspberry at the cheering tetrapod.) I like it when people want to believe, I get the shivers when we collectively turn away.
Joseph Smith and polygamy. I think it was great and I'm gutted that the church wasn't strong enough to keep it up.
LT - I was offering an olive branch you foobar :P
What are ya doing flinging olive branches around for - I'm enjoying this immensely.
Like Tij said, I'm not the Messiah, I'm just a very naughty boy