Mormons/LDS

by Evanescence 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

free2beme

If I became a Morman, I would see it as digging myself out of one trap, only to fall into another. Only difference, the Morman's at least think it is okay to have a decent enough job to make money ... as long as you pay back 10%. Studying the Morman faith and getting any honest answers from their believers is hard. Morman's will not tell you what is really happening in the faith, unless you are a "true" believer. You think the Witnesses have secrets, you haven't seen nothing yet, until you unwrap the LDS package.
Evanescence

yeah I have heard that its hard to understand the LDS faith, and in this case its hard to get any clear answers out of the mormons and the ex-mormons.....
Evanescence
Qcmbr

Hiya Ev.

Here's our stock answer of core belief's

1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Here's my short list to add:

You must have a personal relationship with God and a conviction of the faith ('flesh and blood hath not revealed it to you') - we call it a testimony.
God/ Jesus/Holy Ghost - 3 seperate people. God and Jesus have bodies.
Jesus is Jehovah - God of old testament - it was His people He taught and died amongst.
Adam and Eve are honoured for giving us our turn on earth and the chance to return back to God after making our own mistakes and making our own way.
Free agency - the ability to make moral choices.
LDS church is a restoration and literal kingdom of God restored by God to a prophet not via well meaning individuals with a particular take on the bible.
Priesthood only given by someone who received it from somone who can trace their line of authority literally to Jesus Christ (via Peter, James and John)
Living prophet.
Continous new revelation and scripture.
Word of Wisdom - our health code (no alcohol, tea, coffee, non-medicinal drugs, eat healthy, look after your body.)
Tithes and Offerings. 10% of income or increase to church plus additional offerings as required plus once a month a fast and a donation to our welfare program.
Welfare program - money and food for members in need in return for work. Welfare program also provides emergency relief and humanitarian assistance worldwide.
Family Home Evening - Monday night is 'sacred' no activities outside family allowed/encouraged. Night for family to be together and have lesson/fun/quality time.
Temple - opportunity to do baptism for dead (ie we believe everyone who ever lived must be baptised), sealings (families are sealed together forever - so your kids will always be your kids , your spouse is always your spouse, all way back to Adam making us one big eternal family)
Resurrection - everyone to be resurrected - no more 'isms' at that time i.e. no 'mormonism' Everyone to be rewarded according to what they wanted. If people wanted to live by doing bad things then they will receive a beautiful paradise, if people wanted to be good but didn't want to accept the sacrifice of Jesus they will receive an even better place but again all sealings gone, finally everyone who accepts Jesus both here and in the afterlife gains eternal life (meaning with God and knowing all God has and becoming as God.) No mormons only going to 'heaven' malarky. Side note everyone not accepting Jesus payment for sins (including agony in Gethsemane) have to pay for it themselves - called pains of Hell. One small sub group - those who know Jesus and have no more faith and then turn away from him, deny the Holy Ghost - cast out to 'outer darkness' where they will rule over satan and his angels (by dint of a body - they still get resurrected)
Relationship to all other faiths - good people are in all of them and have a bright reward but they don't have the priesthood therefore LDS have to do the baptism and sealing on their behalf when they die - same way that Jesus had to die for us - lds consider this a service for all mankind - not a make everyone a mormon ploy (no 'ism' after death.)

Hope that's ok. And for those who keep alluding to 'dark secerets' I hope anyone whose read my post history will know that as far as I'm concerned , as long as you have a bit of respect, I'll tell you anything. I have read all our secrets and none of them are 'oh my gosh - its all false' things.
Evanescence

Thankyou very much Qcmbr that was all indeed very interesting
Hope that's ok. And for those who keep alluding to 'dark secerets' I hope anyone whose read my post history will know that as far as I'm concerned , as long as you have a bit of respect, I'll tell you anything. I have read all our secrets and none of them are 'oh my gosh - its all false' things.
Why do LDS have "secrets?"
I don't hear much from the Mormons, I don't get them to my door what are you guys like door-to-door?
Qcmbr, what brings you to this forum?
Evanescence
LittleToe
Q:
I have to admit that you're the most candid of LDS I've had the pleasure to exchange comments with, even though you do wriggle around a bit, sometimes
Just to pick out a few of your beliefs that most here will find unusual:
The father has a body but the Holy Spirit hasn't yet got one
You use the Trinitarian language of "godhead" but don't actually mean that at all
New Jerusalem will come down to the good old US of A
You believe in apostolic succession, like the Catholics, but see a 2000 year jump from Peter to Joseph Smith, with little but apostasy in the intervening years
You believe that Joseph Smith's "adapted" King James Version of the bible is more accurate than that used by churches, not because of textual analysis but because of divine revelation to him. Because of this you'd likely hold the Book of Mormon in higher regard than a church KJV bible
Whatever you say about people not needing to be LDS to be "saved", you do hold that they will have to be LDS if they are to reach the highest reaches of the after-life promises of God
You baptise all on behalf of the dead, regardless of whether or not they wished this or have previously been baptised by the Christian church, in the hope that they will learn about LDS and convert in your form of purgatory
Those who deny the Holy Ghost are those who have been members of the LDS faith and have left and "apostasised", and hence are condemned to "hell" for all eternity, hence keeping the flock in line
Feel free to elaborate, or to point out where I may have unwittingly misrepresented you. I am more than happy to have pointed out where I have erred.
dontomas

This is one of the best articles on Mormonism I ever read and is right on the mark in my humble opinion.....I don't think this magazine is around anymore but its articles survive on a few websites....link follows.
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ahp.htm
under74

Eva-
what are you guys like door-to-door?
I've only had a couple come up to my door. All young males in the standard uniform. Polite mostly....actually the last time a couple of them came up to my door I had my neice over and right before hand I had 2 calls with people with emergencies and the back patio was starting to flood (rain) because the drain was full of leaves....so I went back there to clean it out.....my neice starts yelling someone's at the door and by the time I get to where I can see the door I realize she's already opened it---she was told not to open the door to strangers!!...anyway I was flustered and there were 2 young guys there. One of them asks if he could give me some pamphlet and I'm like "NOOOOOOOOOOO (whiney voice), that's the last thing I need right now." Anyway, this kid asked if he could help me with anything...I'm sure he could tell I was very very busy and wet. I declined... but he seemed like a nice boy. Much more then the mormon boys I've seen on the bus in San Francisco (Filmore Street)....is it really that hard for 20 year old males to give up their seats to old women? Anyway...just thought I'd tell ya a story....
Q- What do you think about the Burned-Over District?
stevenyc

Mormons suffer the same problem as Jehovahs Witnesses. They are burned by their own prophetic history. Check this out:
Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his diary:
"The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being six feet in height. They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style or fashion of dress. They live to be very old; coming generally near a thousand years. This is the description of them as given by Joseph [Smith] the Seer, and he could see whatever he asked the Father in the name of Jesus to see" - Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol 2, p 166, emphasis added
Here's Brigham Young (second president and "prophet" of the LDS church) on the inhabitants of the moon and the sun:
"I will tell you who the real fanatics are: they are they who adopt false principles and ideas as facts, and try to establish a superstructure upon, a false foundation. They are the fanatics; and however ardent and zealous they may be, they may reason or argue on false premises till doomsday, and the result will be false. If our religion is of this character we want to know it; we would like to find a philosopher who can prove it to us. We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed "the man in the moon," and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. Every planet in its first rude, organic state receives not the glory of God upon it, but is opaque; but when celestialized, every planet that God brings into existence is a body of light, but not till then. Christ is the light of this planet." - Journal of Discourses Vol. 13, p.271, emphasis added
Joseph Fielding Smith, apostle and later president of the church (as well as prophet, seer and revelator) said, in his book Doctrines of Salvation, volume 1, pp 88-89 (1954, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City) about the sun as a "celestial" body:
"It is my opinion that the great stars that we see, including our sun, are celestial worlds; at least worlds that have passed on to their exaltation or other final resurrected status. This is in conflict, of course, with the teachings of scientific men, who declare that the sun is losing its energy and gradually cooling off and will eventually be a dead world. I do not believe the Lord has any such thing in his plan. The Lord lives in 'everlasting burnings' we are informed. President Brigham Young has said that this earth when it is celestialized will shine like the sun, and why not?
"'If the people could fully understand this matter,' he said, 'they would perceive that it is perfectly reasonable and has been the law of all worlds. And this world, so benighted at present, and so lightly esteemed by infidels, ... when it becomes celestialized, it will be like the sun, and be prepared for the habitation of the saints, and be brought back into the presence of the Father and the Son. It will not then be an opaque body as it now is, but it will be like the stars of the firmament, full of light and glory; it will be a body of light. John compared it, in its celestialized state, to a sea of glass.' (Journal of Discourses 7:163)" [emphasis in original]
Most rank and file LDS don't know their own history, and a little cognative dissonence steps in when shown. All to farmiliar, IMHO.
steve
blondie

The Mormons that I have talked to also have some disturbing ideas:
Adam and Eve were given 2 conflicting laws from God.
1) To multiple and fill the earth
2) Not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad (including the knowledge of human procreation)
In order to fulfill one, they had to break the other, that God never intended the earth to be a permanent place for humans but merely a testing ground for spirits to come down from heaven and live a life that either gains them higher privileges as a spirit when they return or eternal death as neither a human or a spirit.
Second that they don't believe in a trinity but that Jesus is Jehovah. (only 2 thus they don't believe in a trinity).
Third, that the Book of Mormon and other LDS holy books supersede the Bible comparing it to the NT superseding the OT.
I always felt that leaving the WTS and becoming a LDS would be like jumping out of the pan into the fire.
Blondie
LittleToe

In fairness, if I were to choose a cult, I'd prefer the Mormons over the JWs

Mormons/LDS

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