Do any jw pubs say "Due time has approached" ala Luke 21:8?

by Check_Your_Premises 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    So, did something happen in 1994 that I don't know about?

    It represented the cut-off date for the Second Coming, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and the rejection of the Society as the F&DS, all of which were fulfilled between November 30, 1992 and April 6, 1993 (e.g., JCanon woke up in a dumpster, became Jesus Christ, saw a cloud formation in the sky, the Governing Body was rejected from God's Heavenly Organization and Fred Franz died), so the prophecy was fulfilled! According to JCanon.

  • AlanF

    CYP said:

    : Where can I find one of those printed indexes?

    At your local Kingdom Hall. You want something like the 1985-2000 Publications Index.


  • Hellrider
    e.g., JCanon woke up in a dumpster, became Jesus Christ, saw a cloud formation in the sky

    I`ve had those Sunday mornings too (damn you, Jack Daniels)

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Hellrider, thanks for making me think for a moment about JCanon's name.

    ANON is not only an abbreviation for anonymous, but is a word in itself:


    (Ã nonÆ), adv.


    in a short time; soon.


    at another time.


    Archaic. at once; immediately.

    4. ever and anon,

    now and then; occasionally.

    I wonder if Our Sweet Lord will let us know if we are correct?

    Hare Krishan, Hare rama, Hare, hare!

  • RunningMan

    "his nick might just be a short version of "Jesus Christ Anonymous")"

    Oh, it's a log more than just "might be". He had outright claimed to be Jesus. You may have to dig in his old posts for a while, but it's there.

  • heathen

    To my knwoledge there were no sitings of the messianic kingdom by the J-dubs but when they were wrong about it's arrival in 1914 and various other dates they finally concluded it must have arrived invisibly . The last I heard they do not exspect jesus to return all the way to earth but that he will rule from outerspace or heaven which I disagree with and so does the bible . False prophets in Israel were the people that said peace and security when there was no peace and security such as when the babylonians invaded . Oddly enough there have been people claiming they were the christ and mostly they prove to be nut cases .The WTBTS claims they are the seed of christ , depending on which publication .

  • OldSoul


    I believe the Bible interprets itself. When it plainly states a thing, it means what it says. Do you think the Bible should be perceived as open to private interpretation, or do you think the Scriptures must harmonize?

    For instance, in an account parallel to the one being considered we read:

    Matthew 24:23-27 "Then if anyone says to YOU, 'Look! Here is the Christ,' or, 'There!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned YOU. Therefore, if people say to YOU, 'Look! He is in the wilderness,' do not go out; 'Look! He is in the inner chambers,' do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

    Does this do anything to clear up for you what he was saying in Luke? What does the expression, "if anyone," mean in your dialect of English? To me, that means "if any person or group of people," i.e. "if any entity." How many references have you seen in Organization (WTS or CCoJW) publications that state that they point the way to Jehovah's Kingdom and its now enthroned King, that this is the greatest work laid before all of Jehovah's Witnesses, and other similar statements?

    Now, Matthew doesn't leave us guessing about why Jesus said we should reject such inane maunderings on the part of would be foretellers of events, he also relates us the reason. I don't know about you, but when a flash of light extends from one side of the horizon to the other side I need no Organization or person to tell me that is lightning. In a similar way, although the coming may very well be invisible (won't debate that point at all, doesn't matter) its effects will be as surely and unmistakably discernible as the lightning in the sky.

    In other words, no one should follow anyone who presumes to try and lead them. Jesus' presence will declare itself.

    You needn't agree with me. I would hate to start a following. However, please compare Luke 21 and Matthew 24 on this point with an open mind and heart and I am sure you will reach a conclusion different than the one spoonfed to you by the false prophets to whom you are attached. Mind you, I am not judging them. The Bible is. Pointedly. Why do they not heed?

    Mark 13:21-23 "Then, too, if anyone says to YOU, 'See! Here is the Christ,' 'See! There he is,' do not believe [it]. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones. YOU, then, watch out; I have told YOU all things beforehand."

    Mark adds weight to Matthew, and those two make Luke crystal clear. What signs and wonders? Well, it doesn't say. So the signs can't be used to identify the false prophets. The singular identifying mark given to use in identifying the false prophets is that they will be claiming to know where the Christ is and will be telling others that they know where he is. You don't do that do you, JCanon?

    However, I know many who have been misled into following an Organization that claims to know where Jesus is. There are signs and wonders that invariably keep them from questioning too deeply. There is, "This world-wide preaching and teaching work going on throughout the earth in an organized way." There is, "One language spoken by Jehovah's servants earth-wide, they do not disagree in their doctrine no matter what there background." There is the much touted and wholly absent, "Love among yourselves." (John 13:34, 35) There is the fictitious, "Keep[ing]...without spot from the world." There are many others, but none of them washes away the means of identifying the false prophets. That stench can't be washed away by signs and wonders.


  • JCanon
    Yeah but they said it about 1914 falsely. It wasnt the due time. It wasn't true. So they were true prophets who described something that didn't happen?

    This is the way it works. They preached about 1874 and 1914 and related that these were critical dates related to the second coming. Their specific understanding about the dates was not precise but some of it was. Now the complication comes with this group being permitted to be a "weed/wheat" organization. In other words, the temple organization began and as the new blades showed up it was discovered it have weeds in it! The choice was to try to separate the weeds from the wheat at this time, but it was too dangerous! Better to "let both grow togehter until the harvest" and then separate. Which means that the accurate would be preached with the inaccurate. Take 1914 and 1874.

    The "signs" that begin the last generation must begin with a world war. 1914 began a world war, so to begin the last "generation" leading to Christ 1914 is an absolutely good date! 1914 does begin the "last generation" so that was a good and still true reference for 1914. What is WRONG about 1914 per the witnesses is two things 1) It is not the end of the gentile times (1947) and 2) it is not the the second coming (1992).

    But ESSENTIALLY they did the important thing which is sound the warning that 1914 began the last generation.

    1874: 1874, in case you noticed is 120 years from 1994, which ends a generation of 80 years from 1914. The "generation of Noah" is from 1874 to 1994 so it is RELEVANT they pointed it out. They first said Christ's second coming was in 1874 and amazingly apparently as late as 1927, but 1874 is still a good date for 1) the last generation of Noah from 1847 to 1994 and also a reference for when "Michael stands up" (Daniel 12:1). Michael first stands up and starts beginning his parousia in 1874, including selecting the temple organizatino which appears in 1886. By 1914 the last generation begins. So these dates, 1914 and 1874 are significant Biblical landmarks that were emphasized by the witnesses though their specific understanding may have changed later on but they are still important dates. This is the "mixture" of the wheat and weeds. The right dates with the wrong meanings. ????

    I know this is confusion, la-la-la-la-la! and everybody likes things in clear plain reference and in black in white but that's not how it is, sorry. It's complex, convoluted and cryptic. Witnesses are part of this but a complex part of it.


  • JCanon
    He he, never mind JCanon, he`s like a JW with a twist. He believes the WT was the house of God, but that they have gone astray, and are now apostates (evildoers in the temple of God).

    Fine to disagree with me, but please don't misquote me (smile) ... my APPLICATION is the parable of the "wheat and weeds" to this organization. The parable says the master planted good seeds but then before the seeds came up the Devil planted weeds. When the blades of wheat appeared so did the weeds. What to do? The decision was to let both grow together until the harvest when the two would be separated. This is the context of an organization that would operate with God's persmission that was known to be partially corrupt.

    The weeds were the Freemasonry influence of Russel and Rutherford who showed up early in the organization and had such influence that to remove them would have disrupted the organization at this early stage and some of the wheat would have been lost. It was better to let the organization grow with some of the weed-like influence and then separate the wheat out later. This organizatin would fulfill preaching the "good news" world wide though some of their teachings would prove to be false.

    So the dates were right to emphasize, yes 1874 and 1914, but the specific understanding was not correct. That's the wheat-weed nature of the organization. Partial truth.

    Yes, JWs are God's chosen house and with them is the advanced truth though some false teachings. They understand, for instance that Christ is Michael the archangel in constrast with most of Christendom. They understand that a paradise earth is part of the end purpose of God for the earth though some, 144K will have heavenly life! They understand the chronology of scripture that 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem marks the second coming, but they have the date for the fall of Jerusalem wrong. They know that 455 BCE begins the 70 weeks prophecy but think it's the 20th of Artaxerxes rather than the 1st of Cyrus. So you see, they have a brilliant understanding of one aspect of scripture but it's not absolutely accurate in application. But that was prophesied.

    The END RESULT of this wheat-weed organizatino would not be that Christ would kick the weeds out of the organization in the end and seize control over a cleansed organization, but that instead he would remove the sheep from the fold and have them join a larger fold of his elsewhere and would abandon the organization to the apostate leadership.

    So yes, the witness organization is the "temple organization" but it's leadership was prophesied to become apostate! The "man of lawlessness" thus rises up in to the temple of THE GOD (Jehovah) and makes itself a god. That is the description of the JW Governing Body who makes itself a god by claiming to be the "faithful and discrete slave" and God's "channel." They get too preoccupied with growth, numbers and new one-day Kingdom Halls and neglect the important spiritual things. In the end, Christ rejects them.

    BUT IT IS IN THE BIBLE! The temple organization becomes apostate in the end!! So that the fact that witnesses have some false prophecies fulfills that part of the prophecy about the temple organization which is abandoned in the end.

    The apostacy of the temple organization is Biblical! I didn't make it up. There is a Biblical basis for it.


  • JCanon

    Hi Leolaia....

    It represented the cut-off date for the Second Coming, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and the rejection of the Society as the F&DS, all of which were fulfilled between November 30, 1992 and April 6, 1993 (e.g., JCanon woke up in a dumpster, became Jesus Christ, saw a cloud formation in the sky, the Governing Body was rejected from God's Heavenly Organization and Fred Franz died), so the prophecy was fulfilled! According to JCanon.

    That's almost right, but just to give a fair context. The 1335 days which is 45 days beyond 1290 days past the "end" fulfills that prophecy. The "end of the gentile times" was not in 1914 but in 1947 when the gentiles returned possession of Palestine to the Jews! The "good news" by now that reached around the globe as witnessed by NH Knorr, then president of the WTS embarking upon a round-the-world speaking tour!. If you add 45 years to 1947 you get 1992. That is the Biblical date for the second coming.

    The "last hour" which is the 12th hour is when the "man of lawlessness" must be revealed before the Messiah comes. The hours of work in the harvest are 7 years each since a half-hour is 42 months (3-1/2 years). Thus the vineyard workers, another reference to the work of the witnesses begins with 1914 for 11 hours which is 77 years ending in 1991. Thus the "last hour" the "12th hour" is from 1991 to 1998.

    The man of lawlness must be revealed before the second coming, however, which is in 1992. So sometimes between 1991 and November 30, 1992 the man of lawnessness must be revealed, that is, the GB of JWs must be identified as the "man of lawlessness". This was done by a letter to them telling them they had been abandoned by Jehovah and they were the man of lawlesness 45 days before the second coming on November 10, 1992. So this, yes was specifically fulfillled!

    The "dumpster" was used only to symbolize and above-ground tomb as Jesus was placed in and to represent that the second-coming Messiah, the king-priest like Melchizedek represented by high-priest Joshua at Zechariah 3 has befouled garments when he becomes king. Note that Joshua has befouled garments and is given new garments when he is anointed as king. To harmonize with that, the modern-day Messiah spends a night in a dumpster and emerges as the Messiah, obviously with befouled garments having been in the trash. This corresponds with Jesus being in an above-the-ground tomb considered full of inequity in the grave for three days and three nights. This is related to the "sign of Jonah" connected with the Christ where Jonah, likewise is spewed out from the belly of a fish, obviously with befouled garments as well, but now repentant. Jonah, like the prodigal son, who also was given new garments, ran away from God's service and his responsibilities at first and sinned against God in so doing. But after repenting, God forgave him and still gave him the kingdom. The experience of the prodigal son and Jonah are linked. The dumpser experience was lke the whale experience of Jonah. The Messiah emerges in a filthy condition but is cleaned up.

    The dumpster was not an accident but symbolic that god takes the Messiah out of the filth and then gives him glory. It represents the resurrection of Christ from the grave, considered to be a place of filth. This is also applicable to the natural Jews who rejected God but after the "great tribulation" (the Holocaust) get forgiven by God and become his chosen people again. Thus the "prodigal son messiah" is also the natural Jews.

    So it's all BIBLICAL it's all there. The Father gives the Messiah a banquet...the Father gives the prodigal son a banquet. High-priest Joshua gets "new robes" just like the prodigal son does. The parallels are there. There connections are there. It's not my fault if some people refuse to connect the dots.


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