Very good apologetics for honest seekers (page 5)

Sunspot

I only hope that one day you and I will be calling each other 'brother'. God Bless!

It seems that many things that are said have a variety of meanings when put under scrutiny. When you say that you would like to call him "brother", I have to wonder the meaning behind this statement.

Does it mean that you would like him to "come back into the fold" of the WTS? This would mean that in order to think of him as a brother, that he would have to make some necessary changes.

Or does it mean the feeling that we are all brothers in God's eyes? Nope, couldn't be that meaning, because that is already in effect even though you don't see it that way.

To the JW-WTS, only an obedient, loyal and approved associate can readily be viewed as a "brother", and even that is tenuous at best. This "brotherhood" is only contingent upon how well the "brother's" relationship with the WTS is, and not based upon yur relationship with one another may be.

Jesus said "whereas all you are brothers" at Matt 23:8b.

Sorry to go off on this tangent, but this IS a very sensitive subject to me and a lot of others who have simply decided to leave the WTS and not DFed for unscriptural behavior.

Annie

Utopian Reformist

I followed this thread and I must start by complimenting and thanking CARMEL, COGNITIVE, DANNY, Poppers and especially PeacefulPete for the excellent reasoning and logic. All of your posts were a pleasure to read!

CARMEL raised a very important point about "extending" the historical acceptance and veracity of ancient writings to a scope beyond the philosophers and christians. This is critical because if any ancient texts containing specific information about the origin of man and existence of the supernatural, and such texts are written by men, and later accepted by men of subsequent generations without having been eyewitnesses, then all must accepted to the same degree or all must be discarded as superstitious and religious fiction.

The point made was and is solid, logical and should not be ignored and/or minimized. It's inescapable!

Shining One

For Terry,
It's too bad you can't deal with an one issue at a time but instead attempt to smear and paint your muck with generalizations. No one has been getting 'his butt kicked' (by the likes of you). 'On the contrary, we have divine authority to demolish arguments and every pretense that exalts itself agains the knowledge of God'. If you don't like my opinion then just ignore me, but don't pretend that you have the corner on truth ,facts and integrity. Your whining about God is pathetic and arrogant.
Rex

Shining One

Hi Itsallgoodnow,
How many of your 863 posts are one liners? It is so easy to follow the clique, isn't it?
Rex

Shining One

Hi Carmel,
Your opinion of Jesus and His teachings is really a cop out, as per the statement I quoted from C.S. Lewis.
Rex

AlanF

Shining One said to Terry:

: It's too bad you can't deal with an one issue at a time but instead attempt to smear and paint your muck with generalizations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!

AlanF

myelaine

Terry says:

I can therefore prove God does not represent Justice.

How?

What is the way the Bible identifies the mercy of God?

UNDESERVED (or unmerited) FAVOR is what his "grace" is. JUSTICE does not allow what is UNdeserved to be administered to the undeserving. That would be INjustice.

This story....

A young man rents a boat from an old fisherman. Setting out, the old man refers him to his lifejacket.

If at some point later that day, the same young man was treading water and fighting for his life, the boat's down and the jacket... well?....

...all because he didn't listen to and believe the old fisherman....

In what way would he look at the old man when, at once, he came by and threw him another lifejacket?

michelle

Utopian Reformist

Humans have been writing and extolling the virtues and principles of JUSTICE, MERCY, LOVE, for thousands of years. We will always be fascinated and ever curious about how and why we behave the way we do with others and with ourselves, thus we create stories, myths, proverbs, sayings, anectdotes, allegories, metaphors, illustrations, examples, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Why? It is human nature to express feelings and to dramatize life's events. We use events and history to teach and to entertain. Thus, it is entirely plausible that morals and fables arise from human association.

It does not however, offer proof of any judeo/christian/islamic deity based on early middle-eastern writings and philosophies.

AlanF

myelaine wrote:

: UNDESERVED (or unmerited) FAVOR is what his "grace" is. : JUSTICE does not allow what is UNdeserved to be administered to the undeserving. That would be INjustice. A point of logic: Giving something good to the undeserving has nothing to do with justice, but everything to do with mercy. Otherwise you'd have to declare God unjust. Illustration: Suppose the Christian God sees that a murderer is, deep down, a "nice guy" and so forgives him and arranges things so that the murderer gets a light punishment from secular authorities. Was God UNjust? I think you'd agree that he was not. Rather, he was merciful. Therefore, your statement above is disproved. Nevertheless, putting the Bible and history together pretty solidly proves that the Judeo-Christian God is magnificently unjust, by all normal standards. Indeed, he's much like the powerful rulers of ancient kingdoms like Assyria and Babylon, where they killed at will and rewarded those who pleased them. Their "justice" was as arbitrary as God's, as God is described in the Bible. Other examples abound. AlanF

myelaine

AlanF,

: UNDESERVED (or unmerited) FAVOR is what his "grace" is.

: JUSTICE does not allow what is UNdeserved to be administered to the undeserving. That would be INjustice.

Actually Terry said this, not me.

michelle p.s. by equating the sentence handed down by the "secular authorities" as the same sentence that would be handed down by God is like comparing apples to a bagel. imo. God said life for a life. Besides that, where did we get our "present" concept of justice from? Where did we get our "letter of the law"?

Very good apologetics for honest seekers

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