Police shoot suspect....................er why?

by ISP 299 Replies latest members politics

  • ISP
    ISP
    It's easy to pontificate from our armchairs, with limited and potentially biased information. The guys who have to deal with the reality of it are the armed services.

    True Little toe..........but we have standards. At this moment, UK troops are being tried over 'war crimes'. Why? it all happened in a war zone.....when split second judgements have to be made etc. Because, as a country, we attach value to human life and if it is taken inappropriately there are consequences. If a policeman holds an innocent man down while his colleague puts 7 bullets in his skull there has to be an outcry. The minute that changes we really do have a problem.

    ISP

  • talesin
    talesin
    It's just amazing that you guys are so concerned about the guy who was shot in error while at the same time virtually ignoring the 50+ people who died on the tube trains in the earlier bombing incidents. Of course that's the way that folk who are rabidly anti-establishment operate.



    Never thought I'd see you take a cheap shot like that.

    This rabid anti-establishment type was very upset by the bombings, and responded on the appropriate threads. Not only that, I sent a PM to one Brit who was very upset, titled "One Britain, One World". So, I don't appreciate the sentiment.

    ,,, there are good reasons why I am ANTI-establishment. I've been involved in the 'world' for 30 years, and can't even begin to tell you the disgusting things I have observed/experienced/learned about the police, the military, our elected 'representatives', and systems of government. It's enough to make me want to hurl at the injustices committed to the common people.

    tal

    Edited to add, PEACE OUT, this thread is just a big argument, with tempers beginning to flare.

  • Simon
    Simon
    It's easy to pontificate from our armchairs, with limited and potentially biased information. The guys who have to deal with the reality of it are the armed services.

    Which is why they should not be sent on false premises. They do our bidding and ultimately any crimes commmitted and the deaths of innocents come to rest at our door (or the ones who sent them).

    I am not surprised that Blair is keen to try and claim that our actions in Iraq had nothing to do with the London bombings ... if they did then surely that makes him culpable and would put the spotlight back on why we went to war and why we have killed between 25,000 and 100,000 civilians.

  • ISP
    ISP
    Failed London bomber arrested in Birmingham
    By Times Online, Daniel McGrory, Richard Ford and Stewart Tendler

    One of the failed London bombers has been arrested during a dawn raid in Birmingham, police sources said today, in a major breakthrough for anti-terrorism officers who believe that the attackers could be preparing to strike again.

    Three other men were held in the early morning swoop, which was carried out by 50 officers from two police forces and started at 4.30am. Two addresses in the east of Birmingham were raided and a suspect package was found at one property. The device will be destroyed by bomb disposal experts in a controlled explosion this morning.

    One man, thought to be the bombing suspect, was shot with a Taser gun, but no firearms were discharged in what police are describing as a "very safe" operation. Police practice against suspected suicide bombers has come under intense scrutiny since the shooting by armed officers of an innocent Brazilian man on Friday in South London.

    West Midlands Police said that all four men had been arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000. One is a suspect in the failed bombings and has been taken to Paddington Green police station in Central London, the Metropolitan Police told Times Online today.

    It is not clear which one of the quartet has been arrested. Two of the four men, Muktar Said-Ibrahim, 27, who tried to bomb a London bus, and Yasin Hassan Omar, 24, the Warren Street attacker, have been named by police.

    A West Midlands Police spokesman said: "Officers executed a warrant obtained under the Terrorism Act 2000 at an address in Heybarnes Road, Hay Mills.

    "One man was arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000. The man was Tasered during the operation. No firearms were discharged. He has been taken into custody to a Central London police station."

    The spokesman added: "A suspect package was found and, as a precautionary measure, evacuations have been undertaken in the vicinity and bomb disposal experts are in attendance."

    Shortly afterwards, a second search warrant was executed at an address in Bankdale Road, Washwood Heath. "Three men were arrested at this address under the Terrorism Act 2000," the spokesman went on.

    "They have been taken into custody in the West Midlands Police force area. Forensic examinations are being conducted at both addresses. These operations are in connection with the incidents in London on July 21."

    Speaking near the scene of the arrest in Heybarnes Road, Stuart Hyde, Assistant Chief Constable of West Midlands Police, said that officers had used a stun gun to ensure a safe arrest. Mr Hyde, who estimated that at least 50 people were involved in both raids, continued: "It was the most appropriate weapon in the circumstances.

    "The officers used a Taser and were able to effect a very safe arrest."

    Police at Heybarnes Road erected an extended cordon around the maisonette. A police spokesman said: “Following advice from the Army, we have now extended the cordon and evacuated about 100 houses.”

    In a separate operation two men were arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act at Grantham railway station in Lincolnshire as they travelled from Newcastle to Kings Cross.

    The arrests were made after information was given by two off-duty Metropolitan Police officers who were travelling on the same GNER train. They will be questioned at a Lincolnshire police station this morning.

    The fugitive bombers who bungled their attacks on London’s transport system last week returned to their secret cache of explosives to rearm themselves for another assault, Scotland Yard believes.

    Immediately after the bombings up to three of the men who tried to blow up three Tube trains and a bus were seen by a neighbour at the ninth-floor flat in New Southgate, North London, that they were using as a bomb factory.

    Witnesses claim that some of the suspects made a second trip the next day to the flat where police yesterday found chemicals and bombmaking materials.

    The men who lived at the flat, Ibrahim and Omar, were described by a neighbour who met them as looking "startled and dishevelled". They fled shortly before police established last Friday that the flat had been used as a base.

    It emerged last night that Ibrahim was granted a British passport despite a criminal record for violence. It also emerged that his parents identified him to police after CCTV pictures of him were released.

    He was jailed by Luton Crown Court for five years when he was 17 for being part of a gang that carried out a series of muggings at knifepoint at Hertfordshire railway stations. One former friend said that he turned to radical Islam while in prison.

    He qualified for early release in 1998 and is then alleged to have met Richard Reid, the jailed "shoe bomber", at two London mosques. Reid, who was also a petty criminal, tried to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic in 2001.

    Immigration officials disclosed that Ibrahim and Omar came to Britain as child refugees. Omar came from Somalia as a 10-year-old in 1992.

    Ibrahim arrived with his parents in the same year from Eritrea, aged 14. Barely ten months ago, he swore allegiance to the Crown when he became a British citizen. Police are investigating how he was granted citizenship with a criminal record. A key condition for naturalisation is that applicants should be "of good character". Officers also want to know if he applied for citizenship in order to obtain a British passort.

    Passport checks have been reimposed for everyone leaving the country in an attempt to prevent the four suspects from fleeing abroad. Controls were imposed after the first wave of bombings on July 7 and were back in place only four days after being lifted.

    As Britain’s biggest manhunt went into its sixth day, detectives confirmed to The Times that they are convinced that a fifth bomber is on the loose. He is believed to have discarded his bomb in a park near Wormwood Scrubs prison. Scientists say that it contained the same type of explosives as those used in the botched attacks.

    Detectives found "a substantial amount" of explosives in the towerblock at Curtis House, in bins and in a lock-up garage on the estate.

    So much explosive has been discovered at different sites since the original July 7 attacks that killed 52 people, that police cannot be sure how much the cell possesses.

    Armed police seized a car used by one of the bombers, which was found abandoned a few miles from the council flat that Ibrahim and Omar shared.Streets near the North Circular Road in East Finchley were sealed off as bomb disposal teams searched the white Volkswagen Golf.

    Police told how Ibrahim was identified by his own parents. His family spoke of their shock at discovering their son’s involvement in terrorism and condemned his actions. "We are a peaceful family, having lived in this country since 1990," a family statement said.

    Police are still checking identifications of the other two men who took part in the attacks.

    Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said that senior officers had come close to allowing officers to fire on terrorist suspects seven times since the July 7 bombings. They had been asked to assess the risk of a terrorist 250 times in the past 20 days.

    Doctors in London have been asked by police to alert them if they are consulted by any "young men of Asian appearance" with back injuries.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

    Taser gun used this time....which seems a great deal more sensible when this man may have information that maybe useful.

    ISP

  • Simon
    Simon
    It's just amazing that you guys are so concerned about the guy who was shot in error while at the same time virtually ignoring the 50+ people who died on the tube trains in the earlier bombing incidents. Of course that's the way that folk who are rabidly anti-establishment operate.

    Tabloid reasoning at it's worst.

    As for Simon's insistence that I imagine it was one of my sons who was shot in error, that just beggars belief. That really is flame mongering IMHO.

    A poor show Simon, you do yourself little credit.

    Englishman. I expected better. You are now resorting to personal attacks ... anything to divert attention and focus away from your (non) argument I guess?

    It is YOU who is determined to ignore other people's suffering. How dare you suggest that it is me that is doing that. YOU are the one that is excusing an innocent death. Who is his death different to the deaths of those on the train?

    I suggest you appologise because I have not ignored the 50+ people who died two weeks ago. I don't have to demonstrate that or mention them in every post though and it is not what this topic is about is it?

  • Golf
    Golf

    Who remembers DRESDAN? The English bombing 'innocent' people, 150,000! Where's the outcry?

    David Irving's book "Destruction of Dresdan" needs to be read. The question is, who are the real terrorists?

    A documented book by Count Leon de Poncins "State Secrets" also needs to be read.


    Golf

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    ISP:

    If a policeman holds an innocent man down while his colleague puts 7 bullets in his skull there has to be an outcry. The minute that changes we really do have a problem.

    I couldn't agree more, and there should be accountability. That notwithstanding, it's not surprising that there are civilian casualties. To expect otherwise would be to deny historical evidence of the nature of war. Such is the balance of the mind, in such scenarios. It's no wonder that so many of the armed services suffer PTSD. Simon:I agree with your opinion that the bombing is a reaction to the Iraq situation. Blair's bait'n'switch tactics are ridiculous. His attempt at doing a "Winston Churchill", when addressing the nation, was an interesting twist and quite lacking, I felt. Maybe he needed a cigar, yeah that's it, or is he concerned that he might be mistaken for Clinton, yeah that's it... oh what a tangled web...

  • Simon
    Simon
    Who remembers DRESDAN? The English bombing 'innocent' people, 150,000! Where's the outcry?

    Many, me included, do believe that was a war crime. The deliberate targetting of civilians is a crime IMO. Because we 'won' then bomber-Harris is declared a hero and not a villain.

    I agree with your opinion that the bombing is a reaction to the Iraq situation. Blair's bait'n'switch tactics are ridiculous. His attempt at doing a "Winston Churchill", when addressing the nation, was an interesting twist and quite lacking, I felt. Maybe he needed a cigar, yeah that's it, or is he concerned that he might be mistaken for Clinton, yeah that's it...oh what a tangled web...

    LOL

    I think Blair's press conference yesterday was pathetic. He was constantly using legalistic, lawer-like and too narowly defined terms to condemn things. Did he condemn killing of civilians? No. Did he condemn bombing civilians? No. He condemned suicide-bombing of civilians.

    Convenient that ... but not surprising. The one thing that our 'enemy' does that we do not. We kill plenty of civilians, many with bombs and so do the people we support. But I guess that's OK.

    Of course to the victims if doesn't matter if the bomb was strapped to someone's back, planted or dropped from 25,000 feet and laser guided - they are still just as dead.

  • Simon
    Simon
    who are the real terrorists?

    Good question. Until we stop sanctioning our own state sponsored terrorism I don't think we can expect terrorism against us to stop.

    Interesting isn't it that before the war many claimed that invading Iraq would make us a target but it would be worth it because of WoMDs etc. Now, the same people claim that it has nothing to do with what they did.

    Pitiful.

    They do not want to have the debate because they must, by definition, accept some responsibility for the chain of events. Simple cause and effect.

    Islamic jihadists / extremists could have been wiped out after 9/11. They were finished. All that was needed was to ensure justice - catch those responsible.

    Instead, we had Bush and Blair plan a war and go off on a crusade. They have made the extremists more powerful than they have ever been and probably directly contributed to 10-20 years of bloody violence for us all.

    I hope all those that were cheer-leaders for the war are happy with the outcome.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    We interrupt this programme to give you a party political broadacst by the Green party...

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